[patriots] Re: Fwd: CD
- From: "Fred Bishop" <fredbiship@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <mikegreen247@xxxxxxxxx>, "'Rays1'" <rayspost@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, <patriots@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 19:41:42 +0100
You said:
The question, with most respect Mike, is not the mechanics of "how or why
did the victims die" as you proposed since that is to
presuppose and prejudicially accept that those victims deaths were thus
'righteous' in some way...therein lies more Nazi, Stalinism
horror, ultimately
Sorry Fred but I have no idea what you mean by this statement. The question
of how or why the Jews died is what the whole Holocaust is about for
goodness sake, so if you do not think it is of the utmost importance then I
am at a loss as to what to say. In fact it beggars belief.
Mike.
Did I say that?
If so I have problems.
Fred
From: patriots-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:patriots-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Mike Green
Sent: 22 September 2014 16:16
To: Rays1; patriots@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [patriots] Re: Fwd: CD
Ray,
The onus is on those who make claims that something took place to provide
evidence, not the other way round. If you have evidence that the Germans
used "gas ovens" to kill people then please let us all see it. As for the
crematoria, anyone can go to Auschwitz and no doubt other camps as they
exist today and examine them for themselves. They are crematoria. Perhaps
you can also explain the fact that the infamous Auschwitz chimney, out of
which Jews still claim to this day that smoke and ashes poured 24 hours a
day, isn't even attached to any furnace or building. It is a dummy built by
the Russians after the liberation of the camp. In other words it was built
for effect, pure propaganda. The allies took many high definition aerial
photographs of Auschwitz throughout the war and there is no chimney to be
seen so someone is telling porkies. The Russians also rebuilt the roof of
the so-called "homicidal gas chamber", the one with the holes in it through
which the Germans apparently sprinkled the Zyclon B crystals (a ridiculous
idea as they only produced gas when heated up to the required temperature),
again after they liberated the camp. If you are prepared to accept evidence
then watch this video, made by a Jew, during which Dr Franciszek Piper,
Director of the Auschwitz State Museum, brazenly admits this. You should
watch the whole video, which povides proof that the guides lie to visitors
about the so-called "gas chamber" as a matter of course, but if you do not
have time then the interview with Dr Piper starts at around the 23 minute
mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr9t1eNfho8
You said:
The question, with most respect Mike, is not the mechanics of "how or why
did the victims die" as you proposed since that is to
presuppose and prejudicially accept that those victims deaths were thus
'righteous' in some way...therein lies more Nazi, Stalinism
horror, ultimately
Sorry Fred but I have no idea what you mean by this statement. The question
of how or why the Jews died is what the whole Holocaust is about for
goodness sake, so if you do not think it is of the utmost importance then I
am at a loss as to what to say. In fact it beggars belief.
Mike.
On 22/09/14 14:08, Rays1 wrote:
Mike,
I've declared what I believe already, and qualified that by inviting a
professional appraisal, in private, of the "crematoria"
you mentioned so as to research it seriously in engineering terms
No response.
Hence, what more can I say now?
The more important point yet again being brushed aside, is the matter of
abuse of state power to simply select masses or sections of
populations at whim so as to unlawfully intern them (as is starting already
in our land with secret courts in respect of child stealing etc)
or to put markers on their clothing, or ban whomever they may deem
"undesirable" - for whatever reason as may occur to them.
Or to inflict ever more ridiculous taxes upon sections such as the now
defunct "Window Tax"; the despised "bedTax" Ad-Infinitum.
I have some comparatively wealthy relatives (unfortunately, little of it
came my way!) and tried to explain to one that a primary
purpose of the imposition of the 'Bedtax' was so as to set a taxation
precedent that could be rolled out to anywhere and anything
at their whim and to anybody as they chose. When thy sneakily achieve such
precedent as to give themselves power to lordly decree
where any and all disadvantaged or disabled people may, or may not even
sleep, then a Rubicon of state control has been achieved.
My relative dismissed this saying "This is my property" but, crossing such a
Rubicon means they have now set that limitless taxation
precedent and it CAN now be rolled out to anyone else they please.
Got a separate dining room?...the precedent is set to now order a hike in
your rate payments for an "under occupancy dining facility"..
and the list is now endless. When they target the weak and poor, you can be
sure that that is what they are considering for us all
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...
The question, with most respect Mike, is not the mechanics of "how or why
did the victims die" as you proposed since that is to
presuppose and prejudicially accept that those victims deaths were thus
'righteous' in some way...therein lies more Nazi, Stalinism
horror, ultimately
I actually took it upon myself to merely pose a question about the figures.
Maybe I did step over some boundary of 'criticism'? but,
all questions could be said to be critical....I once said to a guy "Good
Morning?!" , and he turned to me and actually said, "whats it gotta
do with you?" so all questions are critical if chosen to be such....I'm
sorry if I did come across as critical but I've explained myself
now and see no need to continue
Ray
From: patriots-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:patriots-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Mike Green
Sent: 22 September 2014 08:46
To: patriots@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [patriots] Re: Fwd: CD
Ray,
With respect, I think it only fair to the rest of us that you declare
exactly what you do believe on this topic. You have been reluctant to spell
out what you think happened because, as you said yourself, you were not
there. You say your relatives witnessed horrific scenes at one or more
concentration camps. None of us dispute that there were horrific scenes,
i.e. many dead and dying, at some of the concentration camps when they were
liberated. The question is, how or why did the victims die? Your family
members saw dead and dying people. However, they did not witness what
transpired before they entered the camps. That is what is in dispute here.
You took it upon yourself to send an email which was critical of the
beliefs of others, so surely it is only right that you tell us explicitly
what is wrong with what we are saying.
Regards,
Mike.
On 22/09/14 02:03, Rays1 wrote:
Jack,
I'm disappointed you stoop to the "Sly dig"
"Cognitive Dissonance" applies equally, and perhaps more so, to those that
hold so strongly to any one
belief that they simply cannot be moved from it - despite and irrespective
of evidence.
Witnesses Word of mouth remains one of the most convincing of all, and I
still choose to believe my
relatives that the 'Holocaust' did occur - although I accept that the
numbers are in dispute. That is not 'Cognitive
Dissonance' by a long chalk
Religious beliefs?. Well, thats maybe for the individual. I tend to think
there must be 'something' although
what that is remains beyond me - no matter how old I get!
Ray
From: patriots-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:patriots-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Jack Lewis
Sent: 22 September 2014 00:02
To: Patriots
Subject: [patriots] Fwd: CD
For your information.
This could apply to many people who will not accept the evidence against the
Holocaust.
However I can safely say that it doesn't apply to religious beliefs because
they cannot be proved or disproved.
The Holocaust however can.
Jack
a
-------- Original Message --------
Subject:
CD
Date:
Sun, 21 Sep 2014 22:50:47 +0100
From:
Jack Dixon <mailto:dm-king@xxxxxxxxxx> <dm-king@xxxxxxxxxx>
To:
Jack Lewis <mailto:ukpatriot@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<ukpatriot@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
I was just watching the holohoax conversation you was having, it just came
to mind! :-D
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