[patriots] Re: Fwd: CD
- From: "Rays1" <rayspost@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "'Mike Green'" <mikegreen247@xxxxxxxxx>, "Patriots list" <patriots@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 23:24:22 +0100
Mike,
True, in part, but the onus is NOT on the part of
the victims to show evidence as you imply.
The camp victims have shown evidence aplenty of
that; many times over - and we have all seen it.
The victims race, creed or religion matters not a
jot; their suffering lays testament. A murder
victim shows no evidence
other than their remains
It is the other way around- as you say yourself.
If you dispute them then the onus is on you to
show us evidence
of these "crematoria" as you call them - not the
other way around as you imply.
I offered to look at your evidence in private with
you; and who knows? you may have succeeded in
proving that case
and I may have then well supported you and added
my support to the case you make.
That has'nt happened and so, this is now becoming
a circular argument without any useful or
foreseeable end
I wrote: ... "The question, with most respect
Mike, is not the mechanics of "how or why did the
victims die" as you
proposed since that is to presuppose and
prejudicially accept that those victims deaths
were thus 'righteous' in some
way...therein lies more Nazi, Stalinism horror,
ultimately
You replied, Mike: .....
" Sorry Fred but I have no idea what you mean by
this statement. The question of how or why the
Jews died is
what the whole Holocaust is about for goodness
sake, so if you do not think it is of the utmost
importance then
I am at a loss as to what to say. In fact it
beggars belief.
Mike"
But, you are now (again) confusing Fred and I. It
was me (Ray) that made that comment, Mike, - NOT
Fred
I thought I'd made this point clear already but
apparently not, so I'll try, one last time, to
make it clear........
Mike, the means of killing people, whether by
starvation, gassing, or a bullet through the head
- makes them dead regardless.
The question is the (political or dogmatic)
motivation as to WHY the people were made victims.
It is not so much the mechanical means; if
you see what I mean ? Anyway, could you first
re-read the comments and distinguish between Fred
and myself if we are to go
further but, frankly, I see little point in it now
tbh
Ray
From: Mike Green [mailto:mikegreen247@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: 22 September 2014 16:16
To: Rays1; patriots@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [patriots] Re: Fwd: CD
Ray,
The onus is on those who make claims that
something took place to provide evidence, not the
other way round. If you have evidence that the
Germans used "gas ovens" to kill people then
please let us all see it. As for the crematoria,
anyone can go to Auschwitz and no doubt other
camps as they exist today and examine them for
themselves. They are crematoria. Perhaps you can
also explain the fact that the infamous Auschwitz
chimney, out of which Jews still claim to this day
that smoke and ashes poured 24 hours a day, isn't
even attached to any furnace or building. It is a
dummy built by the Russians after the liberation
of the camp. In other words it was built for
effect, pure propaganda. The allies took many high
definition aerial photographs of Auschwitz
throughout the war and there is no chimney to be
seen so someone is telling porkies. The Russians
also rebuilt the roof of the so-called "homicidal
gas chamber", the one with the holes in it through
which the Germans apparently sprinkled the Zyclon
B crystals (a ridiculous idea as they only
produced gas when heated up to the required
temperature), again after they liberated the camp.
If you are prepared to accept evidence then watch
this video, made by a Jew, during which Dr
Franciszek Piper, Director of the Auschwitz State
Museum, brazenly admits this. You should watch the
whole video, which povides proof that the guides
lie to visitors about the so-called "gas chamber"
as a matter of course, but if you do not have time
then the interview with Dr Piper starts at around
the 23 minute mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr9t1eNfho8
You said:
The question, with most respect Mike, is not the
mechanics of "how or why did the victims die" as
you proposed since that is to
presuppose and prejudicially accept that those
victims deaths were thus 'righteous' in some
way...therein lies more Nazi, Stalinism
horror, ultimately
Sorry Fred but I have no idea what you mean by
this statement. The question of how or why the
Jews died is what the whole Holocaust is about for
goodness sake, so if you do not think it is of the
utmost importance then I am at a loss as to what
to say. In fact it beggars belief.
Mike.
On 22/09/14 14:08, Rays1 wrote:
Mike,
I've declared what I believe already, and
qualified that by inviting a professional
appraisal, in private, of the "crematoria"
you mentioned so as to research it seriously in
engineering terms
No response.
Hence, what more can I say now?
The more important point yet again being brushed
aside, is the matter of abuse of state power to
simply select masses or sections of
populations at whim so as to unlawfully intern
them (as is starting already in our land with
secret courts in respect of child stealing etc)
or to put markers on their clothing, or ban
whomever they may deem "undesirable" - for
whatever reason as may occur to them.
Or to inflict ever more ridiculous taxes upon
sections such as the now defunct "Window Tax";
the despised "bedTax" Ad-Infinitum.
I have some comparatively wealthy relatives
(unfortunately, little of it came my way!) and
tried to explain to one that a primary
purpose of the imposition of the 'Bedtax' was so
as to set a taxation precedent that could be
rolled out to anywhere and anything
at their whim and to anybody as they chose. When
thy sneakily achieve such precedent as to give
themselves power to lordly decree
where any and all disadvantaged or disabled people
may, or may not even sleep, then a Rubicon of
state control has been achieved.
My relative dismissed this saying "This is my
property" but, crossing such a Rubicon means they
have now set that limitless taxation
precedent and it CAN now be rolled out to anyone
else they please.
Got a separate dining room?...the precedent is set
to now order a hike in your rate payments for an
"under occupancy dining facility"..
and the list is now endless. When they target the
weak and poor, you can be sure that that is what
they are considering for us all
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...
The question, with most respect Mike, is not the
mechanics of "how or why did the victims die" as
you proposed since that is to
presuppose and prejudicially accept that those
victims deaths were thus 'righteous' in some
way...therein lies more Nazi, Stalinism
horror, ultimately
I actually took it upon myself to merely pose a
question about the figures. Maybe I did step over
some boundary of 'criticism'? but,
all questions could be said to be critical....I
once said to a guy "Good Morning?!" , and he
turned to me and actually said, "whats it gotta
do with you?" so all questions are critical if
chosen to be such....I'm sorry if I did come
across as critical but I've explained myself
now and see no need to continue
Ray
From: patriots-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:patriots-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Mike Green
Sent: 22 September 2014 08:46
To: patriots@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [patriots] Re: Fwd: CD
Ray,
With respect, I think it only fair to the rest of
us that you declare exactly what you do believe on
this topic. You have been reluctant to spell out
what you think happened because, as you said
yourself, you were not there. You say your
relatives witnessed horrific scenes at one or more
concentration camps. None of us dispute that there
were horrific scenes, i.e. many dead and dying, at
some of the concentration camps when they were
liberated. The question is, how or why did the
victims die? Your family members saw dead and
dying people. However, they did not witness what
transpired before they entered the camps. That is
what is in dispute here.
You took it upon yourself to send an email which
was critical of the beliefs of others, so surely
it is only right that you tell us explicitly what
is wrong with what we are saying.
Regards,
Mike.
On 22/09/14 02:03, Rays1 wrote:
Jack,
I'm disappointed you stoop to the "Sly dig"
"Cognitive Dissonance" applies equally, and
perhaps more so, to those that hold so strongly to
any one
belief that they simply cannot be moved from it -
despite and irrespective of evidence.
Witnesses Word of mouth remains one of the most
convincing of all, and I still choose to believe
my
relatives that the 'Holocaust' did occur -
although I accept that the numbers are in dispute.
That is not 'Cognitive
Dissonance' by a long chalk
Religious beliefs?. Well, thats maybe for the
individual. I tend to think there must be
'something' although
what that is remains beyond me - no matter how old
I get!
Ray
From: patriots-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:patriots-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Jack Lewis
Sent: 22 September 2014 00:02
To: Patriots
Subject: [patriots] Fwd: CD
For your information.
This could apply to many people who will not
accept the evidence against the Holocaust.
However I can safely say that it doesn't apply to
religious beliefs because they cannot be proved or
disproved.
The Holocaust however can.
Jack
a
-------- Original Message --------
Subject:
CD
Date:
Sun, 21 Sep 2014 22:50:47 +0100
From:
Jack Dixon <mailto:dm-king@xxxxxxxxxx>
<dm-king@xxxxxxxxxx>
To:
Jack Lewis
<mailto:ukpatriot@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<ukpatriot@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
I was just watching the holohoax conversation you
was having, it just came to mind! :-D
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