On Fri, 28 Nov 2014 08:18:32 -0500 Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > David L. Craig wrote: > > The main Plan 9 flavors are Bell > > Labs, 9front, and Inferno. Don't be too quick to write > > it off, IMHO. > > I'm not writing it off at all - it's a great o/s, and the 9p protocol > is particularly interesting in its own right. > > What I'm questioning is whether it's a starting point for a "modular > Debian ecosystem" - in that it is explicitly neither Linux nor Unix, > and doesn't have a base of Debian packaged software to start with. My viewpoint is that "Modular Debian" is, or at least later became, much more inclusive than Debian without systemd. From my perspective, it is, or became, a place for discussion and/or help to get away from systemd and similar types of gratuitous entanglement, by whatever means necessary, as long as it's free software. And of course, the necessary means will differ according to each of our needs, capabilities and beliefs. I could envision some of us going forward with Debian plus sysvinit, others with Debian plus nosh or runit or S6 or other light inits. Others may go with a fork of Debian. Some might go with various BSDs, some with Plan 9, some with Gobo, some with Gentoo and Funtoo. Some might run a systemd-encumbered Debian but limit the damage with daemontools or some other daemonizer, others might run free-software, non-Ellison descendents of OpenSolaris, and still others Debian kFreeBSD. By sharing info and experiences on *all* these possibilities, each of us can make informed decisions, and each of us can help each other. Another benefit of this list's wide-ranging nature is that it gives each of us a Plan B and Plan C, which is so necessary in these precarious times. The PCBSD that I've (almost certainly) chosen might get screwed up later, necessitating me moving to a systemd-free Debian. The systemd-free Debian that someone else chooses might be defeated by the machinations of Redhat and Poettering, resulting in a need to go to *too or Plan 9. The point is, when our software landlords evict us, we'll have plenty of friends to help guide us to our next home. My opinion is that this is a very wide-ranging group, and, as Ben Franklin once said, "We must hang together, or we most certainly hang separately." If this list split into specialty lists, we'd lose the full range of our possibilities, and the only beneficiaries would be Redhat, Poettering, and the systemd fanboys we all know and love. SteveT Steve Litt * http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance