I'll put it this way. whenever people help me with my windows computers, we always have to turn off jaws, not so with macos and vo.
On Feb 2, 2009, at 10:53 AM, E.J. Zufelt wrote: Good morning,I disagree with you broadly, but that's just a personal preference thing.
However, a sighted user is able to interact with an interface in ways that a blind user isn't, scanning the page to find the next checkbox, comparing quickly the third and seventh row of a table, using colour to determine the importance of a message (red stop sign, yellow yeild sign).
So, why not take advantage of as much as we can and not say, no, no, I don't want to be treated differently. If you're blind you're different and life is more challenging in some ways, I'm all for finding advantages and short cuts where ever possible.
Everett On 2-Feb-09, at 11:46 AM, Jacob Schmude wrote:
Hmm, maybe I should have been more specific. A screen reader should not change the interface to an application, but should facilitate access to that application utilizing its existing interfaces. The reason I believe this, and do not like things such as Jaws does, is that it further isolates us from the concepts of the sighted users, and we become dependent on our screen reader's specialized interfaces rather than on the programs we are using. . If you've ever had to provide tech support to someone sighted you'll know exactly what I'm talking about, attempting to describe to them how to perform a certain step can be difficult since the interface you're receiving is so different in layout and approach to what they're seeing. A screen reader is an alternate interface in that it facilitates another means of output, and another means of input when the mouse is needed and one cannot use the physical mouse device, as well as alerting us to pop-up windows and dialogs we did not explicitly open. That, however, should be the extent of it. We should work with applications within their own UI. We're not second class, why be treated as such by our own computers and access technology?On Feb 2, 2009, at 10:33, E.J. Zufelt wrote:Hey Jacob,Like it or not a screen-reader is an alternate interface, why not take advantage of it?Everett On 2-Feb-09, at 11:12 AM, Jacob Schmude wrote:Well, different strokes for different folks. I personally find the approach taken by Jaws and other windows-based screen readers to be extremely cumbersome. Having to rely on the arrow keys, line by line, is worse than slow. Structural navigation helps, but only if the web page is coded with the proper tags, and there seem to be more that are not than that are. I contrast this with grouped VO navigation which represents a very close approximation to the pages visual layout. I don't need to rely on structural navigation, or searching for what I want. I'm probably the only one who thinks this way, but the less the screen reader insulates or changes for me the better. Everytime I use a windows screen reader I feel as if it's trying to spoonfeed me the information it thinks I want, and often it seems to be wrong. I'd rather have the information on my terms, I guess, and that's what VO gives me--let me have the information, I'll decide what to do with it. A screen reader should be a tool, not an alternate interface.Sorry, had to put in my $0.02. Guess I'm just old-fashioned :). On Feb 2, 2009, at 09:59, E.J. Zufelt wrote:Good morning,That's to bad. I have to say that there are a lot of things about VO that I like, but web navigation is almost completely useless to me. It's slow, not very featurefull, and based on past experience is not very intuitive. I don't think that I'll ever find something that I like as well as JAWS for web navigation, but VO beats JAWS in other areas.That being said, I do love the VO + I command. Thanks, Everett On 2-Feb-09, at 10:51 AM, Jacob Schmude wrote:Hi EverettThere's no dedicated table navigation commands, as such. However, if you turn group mode on and thus render the page very close to its visual layout (this is how I keep mine set as I like this approach) then the vo+arrows will navigate tables as you'd expect them to, rather than in the linear fashion you get with dom mode.hth On Feb 2, 2009, at 09:45, E.J. Zufelt wrote:Good morning,Are there voiceover table navigation commands comparable to the Alt + Control + Arrow keys in JAWS and if so is there a way to get them to work on a web page in Webkit?Thanks, EverettThe major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair.--Douglas AdamsThe major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair.--Douglas AdamsThe major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair.--Douglas Adams
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