Anyone got the phone of the National Organization of Blind Spaniards? El 01-09-2011, a las 13:38, Bubba escribió: > You might have appoint. But other than writing them as a individual I don't > think there is much we can do unless there is a blind billion nare out there > somewhere! > > > Sign, > Bubba > bubbathegeek@xxxxxxxxx > > > -----Original Message----- > From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Hilbert > Poehlman > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 4:32 PM > To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: what do we do about productivity on the Mac? > > once upon a time, computers were made to talk. The speech was slow and > horrible and hugely expensive. Even though they could talk, they were not > used in the workplace because the estamblishment at the time did not want to > bare the cost and the software was not accessible to the talking computer. > > Then along came software that made it possible for the workplace products to > be made accessible and all of a sudden, we had employers willing to accept > these talking computer product in the work place because they ran the tools > of the office. > > Now, on the mac we have a similar situation. Employers will not use other > tools just for the sake of accessibility no matter how good they are. > > I agree that it would be a positive step for iwork to be accessible but > microsoft office on the mac *needs* to be accessible if employers are going > to take voice over in the work place seriously. > > On Sep 1, 2011, at 4:19 PM, Bubba wrote: > > That is why we should focus on getting Apple to make I Work a high-end > productivity tool and focus on getting Mac in place of windows machines and > away from MS office. Then these people that is blind would not have to worry > about if they could use office or not. I just think let's take a different > approach then trying to get MS to make something accessible when I don't > think they really care as they all ready know we want it accessible and they > have not budge on it. It will take a large organization with lots of money > to take them to court and get them to make it accessible and believe me it > would take lots of money and time. JMT > > > Sign, > Bubba > bubbathegeek@xxxxxxxxx > > > -----Original Message----- > From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Hilbert > Poehlman > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 4:09 PM > To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: what do we do about productivity on the Mac? > > I'm not worried about the mac user. I'm worried about the majority of > employers who will not hire blind mac users because they cannot use > microsoft office for mac. > > On Sep 1, 2011, at 4:05 PM, Bubba wrote: > > Yes, and not saying that Mac is not gaining in the work force. I think they > are and that is why I say let's forget MS and focus on Apple and it office > suite and making it a high end productivity tool and as accessible as it can > get. Then Mac user would not have to worry about MS. I say if this gets done > and then focus on getting government and enterprise business to pick up the > Mac in place of their windows machine. JSMT > > > Sign, > Bubba > bubbathegeek@xxxxxxxxx > > -----Original Message----- > From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John G > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 3:59 PM > To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: what do we do about productivity on the Mac? > > macs are also very popular in academia. Several of my colleagues use > them, and very few, in fact, I can't think of any, who use MS office. > > John > > At 20:49 01/09/2011, you wrote: >> Fortunately, this is changing. Particularly over the last 2 >> years, the halo effect of the iPad and iPhone has been leading >> enterprise away from Windows and Office. In fact, having little to >> do with Apple, Office is becoming a dying dinosaur. Google docs >> and third party office developers who offer free or low cost office >> suites are starting to hurt Microsoft significantly. >> >> As the fortune 500 companies go, the rest of the business >> world goes. Something like 85 percent are using iPhones and iPads >> and 40 percent are deploying Macs in the work place. Yes, in the >> "big picture" at the moment, Windows dominates the enterprise >> market, but that is chaining and changing faster than a lot of >> people realize. Read up on recent trends and you'll see that Apple >> is not the only company Microsoft is losing market share to. >> >> As for MS and accessibility, the more pressure put on them, the >> more likely they will have to deal with accessibility. Enough >> black eyes given in the media and a few publicized lawsuits will go >> a long way. And I am not one who advocates using legal channels at >> every turn either. Will the NFB ever step up to take action in this area? >> >> >> Take Care >> >> John D. Panarese >> Director >> Mac for the Blind >> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> http://www.macfortheblind.com >> >> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE >> MAC VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT >> >> >> >> On Sep 1, 2011, at 3:35 PM, Bubba wrote: >> >>> Yes, if you have a Mac you can run boot camp and put windows on >> it. Also you >>> can use a windows machine. NO you cannot wish it to happen. But that is >>> about all your hope is with MS making office on the Mac accessible to > us. >>> Making MS accessible on the Mac really has nothing to do with the work >>> place. Especially government if you are working with the government. Or > for >>> that matter most of private enterprise goes. They use mostly >> Windows machine >>> with MS office and if you want a Job you will learn to use windows > machine >>> with windows screen reader and MS office. I don't see MS anytime >> soon making >>> office on the Mac accessible. Like it or not 90 percent of the PC users > are >>> Windows users. We are a very small part of that 90 percent and even less > of >>> the other 10 percent that uses other OS. If anything I think we should >>> encourage Apple to make I work more accessible and more like the MS > office >>> as a very good production tool. This in my thoughts would be the best is > to >>> use what is already accessible to us and build on it. But this is my >>> thoughts and it really to me sound like you are just PO with MS about > not >>> making MS office on the Mac accessible. I would like it to be this would > be >>> great but it would not be a deal breaker or would it stop me in my > present >>> job or getting another job. If I needed windows and a windows screen > reader >>> and Ms office for the Job and I really wanted the job then I would foot > the >>> bill or get help footing the bill and do what it took and not cry and > all >>> about it. I not asking for a hand out or anything I am happy for > anything I >>> can get and any help I can get but when it comes down to it I have me to >>> rely on not hoping for something that more than likely not going to > happen. >>> So write MS about it I don't think it will do any good. Now this is all > I >>> have to say about this. JMT >>> >>> >>> Sign, >>> Bubba >>> bubbathegeek@xxxxxxxxx >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> [mailto:mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Hilbert >>> Poehlman >>> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 3:03 PM >>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: what do we do about productivity on the Mac? >>> >>> You cannot do that in the work place, this is not mac accessibility. we >>> cannot stand by and "wish". >>> >>> On Sep 1, 2011, at 2:33 PM, Bubba wrote: >>> >>> Yes, I agree and wish they would do it. But till they do then will have > to >>> use either a windows machine or do boot camp and run windows on the Mac > and >>> use a Windows screen reader either paid or free like NVDA . >>> >>> >>> Sign, >>> Bubba >>> bubbathegeek@xxxxxxxxx >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> [mailto:mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Hilbert >>> Poehlman >>> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 2:28 PM >>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: what do we do about productivity on the mac? >>> >>> Microsoft office needs to be made accessible because it is too >> entrenched in >>> the corporate world to ignore and as long as it can be used on other >>> platforms accessibly, blind folks using the mac will be left out in the >>> cold. Serious productivity in the workplace cannot move forward >> without it. >>> >>> Iwork leaves a lot to be desired even without accessibility > considerations. >>> >>> On Sep 1, 2011, at 2:23 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: >>> >>> Actually we all contacted Microsoft on there page regarding microsoft > for >>> the mac in late 2007 or 8, and they just shrugged os off. Same thing >>> happened with Microsoft for the mac this year when they came out >> with a new >>> version. I'm not one normally to give up but I am in this case as I'm > not >>> willing to pay over $400 for something I can get for $20 or less at the >>> M.A.S If pages and numbers were made a bit more useable, and I think it >>> will, I think we can have the equivalent of a product for a lot less of > the >>> price. >>> On Sep 1, 2011, at 9:07 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote: >>> >>>> I remember the days before accessibility when computers were just black >>> boxes to us and how long and tortuous the road to accessibility was. We >>> live in a similar time but the difference is that at least some >>> accessibility is already in place. That accessibility though is old and >>> tired and even though it's been bandaided and patched, sooner or later, > it >>> will no longer serve so we need to be certain that accessibility > continues >>> and this is where the mac comes in. >>>> >>>> Some say that ios or some other similar tiny platform will rule the day >>> and although may eventually be the case, we still have a gap that needs > to >>> be filled and in these days of a shrinking economy and dwindling > resources, >>> a golden opportunity exists for mac os to shine forth in accessibility. >>>> >>>> On Sep 1, 2011, at 11:32 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote: >>>> >>>> Just us chickens. we need to generate interest in examining > applications >>> and reporting findings to developpers mainly in the cases of iwork and >>> office to apple and microsoft respectively. >>>> >>>> On Sep 1, 2011, at 11:26 AM, Gaylen Floy wrote: >>>> >>>> What course of action is available to us? Is there an affiliate of the > two >>>> consumer organizations that tackles this kind of problem? >>>> >>>> Gaylen Floy, Federal Way, Washington >>>> >>>> >>>> spreadsheets and documents and presentations, oh my! >>>> >>>> Many blind folk are successfully employed for performing tasks which >>> involve >>>> the above and have been for many years. Few if any though are using > the >>> mac >>>> for many reasons but I want to focus on moving forward in areas in > which >>> we >>>> can move forward and to focus your attention and seek your assistance > with >>>> those. >>>> >>>> We need gallant folk to step up to Microsoft and shout out that office >>> needs >>>> to be made accessible in order that the market for blind employees will > be >>>> wider. To do this, folk must provide concrete detailed and factual >>>> information about the issues of using Microsoft office on the mac. You >>> can >>>> even find some good stuff that is already written and submit it to > them. >>> I >>>> don't have a handle on the Microsoft stream and cannot purchase the >>> product >>>> so cannot help directly but am willing to help in any other way I can. >>>> >>>> We need to provide solid feedback to apple on issues related to IWork > from >>> a >>>> productivity standpoint. Some employers will be willing to accept a > blind >>>> person with a mac since we can export office formats and they would be >>>> willing to mix systems if they are able. >>>> >>>> We need to locate employers willing to work with us and rehab or other >>>> agencies who are willing to take on the challenge if for nothing less > than >>>> the potential cost savings. >>>> >>>> I know that there are a myriad of issues which we face with regard to > this >>>> ultimate goal of prominent positioning of mac in the work place of the >>>> blind, but if we work together, perhaps we can move forward and provide >>>> assistance in this important effort. >>>> >>>> I know that there are efforts ongoing at apple and lots of feedback > coming >>>> to them which they are paying attention to and which is helping to > guide >>>> them toward better accessibility. I'd like though to discuss > experiences >>>> and desires and perhaps translate some of those into meaningful dialog >>> with >>>> apple and microsoft. >>>> >>>> I hope you will attend to this important topic with me and I hope I've > not >>>> overstepped any bounds as an unintended consequence of this letter. >>>> >>>> All the best. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jonnie Appleseed >>>> with his >>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s >>>> reducing technology's disabilities >>>> one byte at a time >>>> >>>> ************ >>>> >>>> >>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list. >>>> >>>> >>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to >>>> their list subscription is: >>>> >>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind >>>> >>>> The list archive is located at >>>> >>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/ >>>> >>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to: >>>> >>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> >>>> ************ >>>> >>>> >>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list. >>>> >>>> >>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to >>> their list subscription is: >>>> >>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind >>>> >>>> The list archive is located at >>>> >>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/ >>>> >>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to: >>>> >>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jonnie Appleseed >>>> with his >>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s >>>> reducing technology's disabilities >>>> one byte at a time >>>> >>>> ************ >>>> >>>> >>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list. >>>> >>>> >>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to >>> their list subscription is: >>>> >>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind >>>> >>>> The list archive is located at >>>> >>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/ >>>> >>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to: >>>> >>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jonnie Appleseed >>>> with his >>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s >>>> reducing technology's disabilities >>>> one byte at a time >>>> >>>> ************ >>>> >>>> >>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list. >>>> >>>> >>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes > to >>> their list subscription is: >>>> >>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind >>>> >>>> The list archive is located at >>>> >>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/ >>>> >>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to: >>>> >>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> >>> >>> ************ >>> >>> >>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list. >>> >>> >>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes > to >>> their list subscription is: >>> >>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind >>> >>> The list archive is located at >>> >>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/ >>> >>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to: >>> >>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Jonnie Appleseed >>> with his >>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s >>> reducing technology's disabilities >>> one byte at a time >>> >>> ************ >>> >>> >>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list. >>> >>> >>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes > to >>> their list subscription is: >>> >>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind >>> >>> The list archive is located at >>> >>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/ >>> >>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to: >>> >>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> >>> >>> ************ >>> >>> >>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list. >>> >>> >>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes > to >>> their list subscription is: >>> >>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind >>> >>> The list archive is located at >>> >>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/ >>> >>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to: >>> >>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Jonnie Appleseed >>> with his >>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s >>> reducing technology's disabilities >>> one byte at a time >>> >>> ************ >>> >>> >>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list. >>> >>> >>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes > to >>> their list subscription is: >>> >>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind >>> >>> The list archive is located at >>> >>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/ >>> >>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to: >>> >>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> >>> >>> ************ >>> >>> >>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list. >>> >>> >>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any >> changes to their list subscription is: >>> >>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind >>> >>> The list archive is located at >>> >>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/ >>> >>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to: >>> >>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> >> >> ************ >> >> >> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list. >> >> >> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any >> changes to their list subscription is: >> >> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind >> >> The list archive is located at >> >> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/ >> >> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to: >> >> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > ************ > > > You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list. > > > The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to > their list subscription is: > > //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind > > The list archive is located at > > //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/ > > All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to: > > john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > ************ > > > You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list. > > > The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any 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The list archive is located at > > //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/ > > All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to: > > john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > -- > Jonnie Appleseed > with his > Hands-On Technolog(eye)s > reducing technology's disabilities > one byte at a time > > ************ > > > You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list. > > > The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to > their list subscription is: > > //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind > > The list archive is located at > > //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/ > > All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to: > > john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > ************ > > > You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list. > > > The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to > their list subscription is: > > //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind > > The list archive is located at > > //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/ > > All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to: > > john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > ************ You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list. The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to their list subscription is: //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind The list archive is located at //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/ All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to: john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx