[lit-ideas] Re: kid camps & passion

 
Hello  aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx,
In reference to your  comment: 


A.A. Do you ever talk about atheism with  her?  

She gets plenty of that from her peers at school, not to mention the  kids 
who assert that they are pagans, wiccans, etc. because their parents have  told 
them so -- while the kids have scarcely a clue what that means.  But  sure, 
I've talked with Bronnie at length about the fact that not everyone  believes 
there is a god, different ways atheists believe what exists came into  being, 
how one might behave differently based on whether or not one believes  there is 
a god, etc.  She's pretty sophisticated for a 13 yr. old.   I've also told her 
that the God I believe in loves variety -- just look at the  magnificent 
variety in the universe -- and that religions are things humans  invent to try 
to 
make sense of their world -- not things God invents.  That  if there is a God 
I am sure S/He understands every individual's attempt to  connect with and 
honour Him/Her.  My 11 yr old on the other hand eschews  all such conversation, 
refuses to attend any religious service of whatever  stripe, and is content to 
curl up under or in trees, being companions with her  cats.  She's going to 
be, I think, one of the people who find God  everywhere in everything and have 
no need for doctrine or dogma.  She is  profoundly empathetic and takes up for 
the underdog with a passion.  When  hearing on the news that someone has hurt 
a child, her response is invariably,  "somebody probably hurt him when he was 
little and he doesn't know it's  wrong.  Someone should teach him."  Her 
naivete she'll outgrow.   Her love for creatures human and non, I hope not.
 
Julie Krueger

========Original  Message========     Subj: [lit-ideas] Re: kid camps & 
passion  Date: 6/26/05 8:14:04 A.M. Central Daylight Time  From: 
_aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)   To: 
_lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
(mailto:lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) , _lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
(mailto:lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)   Sent on:    

----- Original Message ----- 


From:   (mailto:JimKandJulieB@xxxxxxx) 
To: _lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) 
Sent: 6/25/2005 12:04:50 PM 
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: kid camps &  passion


My daughter is somewhat confusedly with what guidance my husband and I  can 
give her finding her own path.  Jim (hubby) is Jewish and we've  attended a 
number of services, rituals, festivals, bar/bat mitzvahs, pesachs,  simchas, 
with 
her along.   She spent a few months studying  written/spoken Hebrew with her. 
 My Mother is a profoundly devout  Pentecostal woman, to whom my daughter is 
very emotionally close.  I have  allowed Bronwyn to visit a number of 
different denominations with friends of  hers.  I want her to have a decent 
understanding of the varieties of  beliefs of other people and cultures.  We 
talk a lot 
about different  paths and their validities.  
 
 
 
A.A. Do you ever talk about atheism with her?  
 
 
 
I had no clue they were going to show the movie, was appalled, relieved  that 
she didn't end up watching it, and will be spending considerable time  
debriefing her over the next few days.
 
The thing that astonished me most, however, is the notion of a "PG13"  
version of it out there.  I'm still trying to figure out if that one is  true 
and if 
so, what in the world it is like.
 
 
A.A. Personally, I think the entire Bible is pretty X rated for both sex  and 
violence.   The old testament is the story of a  psychopath.  The new 
testament is a pretty accurate portrayal of human  nature in my opinion.  
People love 
gore, public hangings, etc.   Beheadings were in the Bible long before the 
Islamists.  Charles Bronson  did PG versions of theBible.  Born agains do a 
good 
job of sanitizing for  the public as well.    I would imagine an effort to 
make a PG  version of a slasher film would acknowledge that it could be harmful 
to  children.  I would argue it's harmful to adults as well, but I'm an  
atheist, so what do I know.
 
 
Andy Amago
 
 
Julie Krueger

========Original  Message========     Subj: [lit-ideas] Re: kid camps & 
passion  Date: 6/25/05 10:45:06 A.M. Central Daylight Time  From: 
_writeforu2@xxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:writeforu2@xxxxxxxxxxx)   To: 
_lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
(mailto:lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)   Sent on:     
Julie -
 
I thought you were Jewish. Sending  your Jewish daughter to a Christian bible 
camp sounds even more problematic to  me than watching a passionately 
anti-semitic film about the passion of  Christ. (And watching it without you by 
her 
side to add some perspective  to what she sees.)
 
This is not a bible camp with an  interfaith component to it, is it? Unless I 
overlooked that. Your daughter's  not getting a perspective on the bible that 
comes from comparing and  contrasting the Jewish with the Christian versions. 
She's getting a "true  believer's" perspective without any countervailing 
view to temper what she  learns. 
 
If this were in school, I would hope  it would be looking at the bible as 
literature. In a bible camp, I really  don't think the teachers will be looking 
at the bible as literature. And you  won't be there. If they brought parents 
together with their kids in a learning  environment, that would be different. 
She'll be there alone without the  intellectual tools or maturity to raise 
challenging questions and dare to  openly dissent against what all the other 
kids 
will blindingly accept as  gospel.
 
I would spend some time with your  daughter now examining, analyzing, and 
discussing all the accepted wisdom  she's ingested by herself.
 
Stan Spiegel
Portland, Maine
 

----- Original Messa
ge ----- 
From:  _JimKandJulieB@xxxxxxxx (mailto:JimKandJulieB@xxxxxxx)  
To: _lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)  
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 8:52  AM
Subject: [lit-ideas] kid camps &  passion


Okay.  The atheists can skip the first part.  The second part  I would love a 
reaction to from anyone with any thoughts, insights,  etc.
 
My daughter (13, going into 8th grade in the fall), begged me to go to  a 
Protestant church camp because some of her friends were going, it would  add 
some 
fun to her summer, and she "needed a week to study God."  I  pictured an 
innocuous place where they would swim in whatever water was  their, do 
"girl-talk" 
after lights out, and have some Bible study.   It's in Excelsior Springs, 
just the side of Kansas (Marlena, I should have  checked with you aforehand and 
you might have given me a head's up).   In any event, I sprung the $100 for the 
week of fellowship and fun.  To  my horror, she called me on Tues. eve 
telling me they were showing The  Passion of Christ for the group and was it ok 
with 
me for her to see  it.  I still don't know if parental permission was 
required or if she  was just checking in because she has heard me talk about 
it.  I 
took a  deep breath, told her I thought she would find it incredibly 
disturbing,  that I had not seen it because of the amount of non-stop gore and 
the  
Biblical inaccuracies, and that I thought she would not be happy with the  
experience.  I also told her she had my permission to make her own  choice 
about it.  
(The fastest way to make sure a teen does something  is to forbid it -- if 
when she comes home today I tell her I want all her  dirty clothes on the 
floor, 
leftover food wherever she was eating it last in  her room, and that trash is 
to be thrown anywhere it's convenient, her room  would be spotless in 30 
minutes.  Hmmm.....that's an idea.)
 
The other day a Mom I know from another non-Xian group and I were  talking 
and she said there was a "PG13" version of the movie "The Passion"  out there.
 
Now I ask you.  How do you make 2 1/2 (or is it 3?) hours of  unmitigated 
non-stop gore and torture, culminating in an excruciating death,  softer, less 
offensive?  They digitally removed the blood  throughout?  They removed any 
obscenities which were shouted in  Aramaic?  The guy doesn't really die at the 
end?
 
Please -- if anyone knows anything about this, fill me  in.    I thought I 
had a pretty good imagination, but this is  beyond me.
 
Off to get kid food -- you know, massive pizzas, taco chips, string  cheese, 
ice cream.....
 
Julie Krueger
 
It

Other related posts: