[lit-ideas] Re: What about those Quakers?
- From: "Michael Geary" <atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:08:55 -0500
A thousand thanks to Austin for spilling the beans. Very informative. I
had always thought Quakers were called Quakers because they quaked in fear
of the Lord, but I see now it's in fear of becoming a Richard Nixon. I'd
quake too. Re: Catholics using Jews to do their filthy lucre work. My
understanding is that the Christian (i.e., Catholic) community (i.e.,
Europe) used Jews to do their banking during the late Middle Ages because
charging any interest on a loan was considered usury and a damnable mortal
sin. Since the Jews were going to hell anyway (and in a handbasket), why
not make use of them and let them loan money, which loans were sorely needed
by the new merchantilists. It was a service the Jews took up gladly and
which became a lucrative trade. Eventually, the Church, which had sold her
last plenary indulgence to one of the Borgias and was looking around for a
new revenue producing enterprise, recognized the money making possibilities
inherent in compound interest and, moved by the Holy Spirit, determined that
since her only interest was in Salvation, then her interest was good, not
bad, and so chased all the Jews out of Europe and took to loaning money
herself. I don't know how the Jews got back into Europe. Sneaky bastards.
Arthur Andersen
Joliet
----- Original Message -----
From: "Austin Meredith" <Kouroo@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 6:36 AM
Subject: [lit-ideas] What about those Quakers?
> I should probably be the one to respond to this, spilling the beans on the
> Quakers, since I'm the list Quaker:
>
> >The Quakers have managed to maintain a belief and practice in
> >uncompromising pacifisms. I think that's true, although I've heard
> >it said somewhere that the Quakers in Pennsylvania would hire
> >non-Quakers to protect them from Indians (kill them, that is)
> >much as Renaissance Catholic rulers hired Jews to do their banking.
> >Is this true? Can anyone out there save mefrom having to research
> >this out myself -- you know I'll never do it, so come on,
> >spill the beans on the Quakers.
>
> I'll take this a point at a time:
>
> >The Quakers have managed to maintain a belief and practice in
> >uncompromising pacifisms.
>
> Well, yes and no. There are different Quakers and as always your mileage
> may vary. During the Revolutionary War, for instance, there was a group
> that called itself the "Free Quakers," that took up weapons and fought.
> (Our little inside joke at the time was that what these Free Quakers were
> free of was Quakerism.)
>
> Also, remember Captain John Brown's raid on the federal arsenal at Harpers
> Ferry, Virginia in 1859, an attempt to raise a slave army and bring on
> civil war? --Two midwestern Quakers were among Captain Brown's fighters.
>
> Generally speaking, there are two kinds of Quakers even now, the
> meetinghouse Quakers and the steeplehouse Quakers. It is the meetinghouse
> Quakers, of whom I am one, who are holding to the Peace Testimony. The
> steeplehouse Quakers are just another little fundie evangelical Protestant
> sect, with Youth For Christ and hymn-singing and a hireling clergy -- the
> whole nine yards. Friend Richard Milhouse Nixon was a steeplehouse Quaker
> from Whittier, California, so he didn't have any difficulty with bringing
> the Fear of the Lord to Cambodia.
>
> >The Quakers in Pennsylvania would hire non-Quakers to protect them from
> >Indians (kill them, that is)
>
> The race situation in Pennsylvania during the French and Indian wars was
> terribly fraught. We can hope we are never subjected to such pressures.
> Part of the problem was that the white population of Pennsylvania was
split
> between non-Quakers, who were killing native Americans, and Quakers, who
> were not, and the Indians were responding by killing the whites right back
> -- without putting too fine a point on whether the whites they were
killing
> were the non-Quaker ones or the Quaker ones. It is true that, in this
> situation, some of the Quakers in the Pennsylvania legislature voted for
an
> appropriation to purchase gunpowder for the white militias. If the spin
you
> want to put on this sad historical fact is that what they were doing was
> hiring non-Quakers to kill Indians for them, well, as you can see, that's
> not *entirely* incorrect.
>
> >Renaissance Catholic rulers hired Jews to do their banking. Is this true?
>
> I'm neither a Jewish banker nor a Renaissance Catholic ruler. I have no
clue.
>
> >come on, spill the beans on the Quakers.
>
> Last First Day after meeting for worship, when we had potluck, I spilled
> the beans *on myself*.
>
>
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