[lit-ideas] Re: Too painful to talk about?
- From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 21:13:08 -0800
Well, you obviously want to believe it is normative in the Armed Forces but
it isn't. Behavior like that is punished which is proof that isn't
normative.
You can't say "it is more normative than you want to admit." That doesn't
make sense. You could say that it is more common than it was when I was in
the Marine Corps but I doubt that. To say that such behavior is normative
means that it is standard behavior. It could not be standard unless it was
approved by the Armed Forces. You don't punish normative behavior.
You are using the Islamist arguments when you imply, as you do, that such
behavior as you allude to is standard operating procedure (normative) for
the Armed Forces.
I do believe our standard operating procedure is morally superior to that of
the Islamists. That seems rather obvious to me. Doesn't it to you? We
punish illegal behavior. We don't target civilians. The Islamists engage
in behavior we consider morally reprehensible. We don't target civilians.
As to the boot whose buttons were stripped off, I don't recall what happened
to him, and we may not have been told. We might have completed boot camp
and gone off to further training before his trial was completed. I just
can't remember. But I do remember the ceremony, as we were all supposed to.
It was intended to be an example to the rest of us.
"Especially since the Iraqis were unconnected to 9/11." I guess some of you
are going to beat that drum forever for quite a while yet. We know an
enormous amount more than when the decision was made to remove Saddam.
There are several reasons for doing it. The one most critical at the
present time has been mentioned by the head of the Iranian Pasdaran (the
Iranian Republican Guard). He knows how critical Iraq is. If we can
succeed in fostering a democracy there, then Islamism will be seriously
weakened. Democracy may spread and this would hurt Islamist tyrannies. This
should be apparent to anyone who hasn't gone utterly over to the dark side.
Lawrence
_____
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Andy Amago
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 8:03 PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Too painful to talk about?
I think it's a lot more normative than you want to admit (to yourself). At
the very least, it's there, alive and well, and on tape. We think we're so
morally superior, until we aren't, especially since the Iraqis were
unconnected to 9/11. But of course you don't believe that. What happened
after this guy's brass buttons were cut off?
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence <mailto:lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Helm
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 2/14/2006 10:54:33 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Too painful to talk about?
When I was in boot camp, some boot went AWOL and committed some crime. I
cant recall what it was, but something very serious like murder or rape.
All the boots at MCRD were assembled and we had to stand at attention and
witness the ceremony of this fellow in full-dress uniform having all his
brass buttons cut off. There was some drumming also, slow beat, as he was
marched off the field in disgrace. There are always some who will engage in
heinous acts, but in the Marine Corps as well as the other branches of the
American armed services, such behavior is not condoned. When it is
discovered it is punished.
To imply that heinous behavior is normative in the American armed forces is
of course a lie. There are some who make such an implication, but they lie.
It isnt normative.
The only forces whose targeting of children is normative are the
paramilitary organizations called Terrorists, Islamists, Militant Islamists,
Radical Islamists, Fundamentalist Islamists. They target civilians
including children as acts of terror. And after they commit their acts of
terror there is no stripping of buttons, no drumming, and no disgrace. They
are considered great heroes it they survive and martyrs worthy of heaven if
they dont. It is not too painful to talk of what is normative for are
military and what is normative for theirs. We should do more of it.
Lawrence
_____
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Andy Amago
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 7:05 PM
To: lit-ideas
Subject: [lit-ideas] Too painful to talk about?
Why has no one mentioned that horrendous beating of the Iraqi children by
American soldiers? The mutant taped the whole thing while doing a play by
play. They filmed it, just like the prison torture. What is it about
people that they love to film themselves committing atrocities, big smiles
no less. Richard Burton was so right.
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