[lit-ideas] Re: The Terrorist next door
- From: "Judith Evans" <judithevans1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 19:23:32 +0100
LH>I take your point, Judy (at least I think I do). I have tended to
LH> believe those who have asserted that Muslim immigrants more
LH> readily integrate into US society because they are wealthier
LH> and better educated to start with.
Yes. Actually initially you contended that "the US" was more
successful (than "Europe") at integrating Muslims, but I accept
your formulation here; my quibble is and has been that
US immigration policy will favour those most likely to be/come
wealthy and well-educated. The UK is adopting a similar
policy, FYI.
LH>I went with my wife to see the Liver-Transplant specialist
LH>at Loma Linda. He had a very difficult-to-pronounce
LH>Arab name. Susan asked him where he was from. He
LH>said Fresno. She said, "I mean, where were you born."
LH> He got an exasperated look on his face and said "I was born in Fresno."
A Muslim here would say exactly the same thing, Lawrence (except
that s/he'd say "London/Birmingham/Cardiff" and might be more
offended). Our Olympic boxing medallist, Amir Khan, is very *British*.
English Muslims who support the England football team carry the
flag of St George. Many British Pakistanis support the English
(English-plus-Welsh) cricket team rather than support Pakistan (but
British West Indians, who are far better integrated and more
laid back, support the Windies against England and Trinidad
and Tobago against England -- in the latter case, switching to
England later; these matters are not simple). Sajid Mahmood,
of Pakistani origin, plays cricket for England -- most recently,
against Pakistan -- as does Monty Panesar, Sikh. (Etc.)
LH>I don't know how many Muslims I have known, but I have
LH> never met one I suspected of being hostile toward the
LH> United States or uninterested in being an American.
The people who are alleged to have tried to carry out the
21/7 failed bombings here are most certainly not uninterested
in being Brits, but they are strongly opposed to UK
foreign policy -- and probably express strong dislike of
"British values", we do have something of a problem
there.
LH>If someone sounds like an American, has an American job
LH>and American ambitions he is probably not a Jihadist
If someone sounds like a Brit, has a British job (or does not),
is ambitious (or is not), then on the opinion poll percentages
we have, s/he is very unlikely to support the London bombings
(let alone be linked to them) -- sorry, "not a Jihadist" is too
vague for me.
LH> But the article implies that a number of American Muslims
LH> are supporting the "'mujahideen' groups." It would be
LH>interesting to learn more about what this support consists of.
I agree
LH>Perhaps the protestors were thinking more along the lines
LH> of sending money rather than actively engaging in the sort
LH>of support Mr. Chandia is going to prison for.
Maybe. I certainly think they probably weren't plotting to carry
out bombings on US soil. But - my point is -- they
certainly don't seem very happy about US foreign policy (and
why should they be?) and may at the very least have been
prepared to fund attacks on US troops abroad.
Judy Evans, Cardiff
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence Helm
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 6:58 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: The Terrorist next door
I take your point, Judy (at least I think I do). I have tended to believe
those who have asserted that Muslim immigrants more readily integrate into US
society because they are wealthier and better educated to start with. They
have no reason to congregate in enclaves. They buy the best houses they can
afford in the best neighborhoods. I knew a number of Arab engineers and had no
reason to think of them any differently than any other engineers. I recall one
engineer, a manager who was being touted as having a brilliant future. He came
by my desk one day and said he needed to ask me a personal question. He was
concerned about being able to tolerate the bureaucratic nonsense of a large
corporation long enough to reach retirement. A great number of things made him
unhappy. I was just a couple of years away from retirement and he wanted to
know how I had managed. It is inconceivable to me that he would have any
interest at all in Jihadism.
I remember another Arab engineer who was doing something like selling real
estate on the side. He wanted my help in getting a better job. He was always
joking. Everything seemed funny to him.
I went with my wife to see the Liver-Transplant specialist at Loma Linda. He
had a very difficult-to-pronounce Arab name. Susan asked him where he was
from. He said Fresno. She said, "I mean, where were you born." He got an
exasperated look on his face and said "I was born in Fresno." All the while
I'm thinking, "Don't make him mad, Susan. He may replace your liver one day."
But he had a sunny disposition and obviously didn't take too much offense at
her question. He had probably been asked it before.
My nephew, someone Susan and I helped raise when his mother ran off with
another man, is engaged to and living with a Cambodian Muslim girl. She and my
nephew have pooled their incomes to buy cars and are considering buying a
house. She is a very sweet girl and has the vague unstudied idea that
Christian principles are pretty much the same as Muslim principles.
I don't know how many Muslims I have known, but I have never met one I
suspected of being hostile toward the United States or uninterested in being an
American. Perhaps the experiences of American Social Scientists and Historians
have been similar. They believe and convincingly argue that Muslims integrate
more readily into American Society than they do into European Society, but the
subject article reminds us that we can't know for sure. The Muslims we know
may not be overtly hostile, but we don't really, most of us, have enough
information to be able to make absolute statements about them.
On the other hand people are people. If someone sounds like an American, has
an American job and American ambitions he is probably not a Jihadist. He may
be, we can't know for sure, but he is probably not. But the article implies
that a number of American Muslims are supporting the "'mujahideen' groups."
It would be interesting to learn more about what this support consists of.
Perhaps the protestors were thinking more along the lines of sending money
rather than actively engaging in the sort of support Mr. Chandia is going to
prison for.
Lawrence
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