[lit-ideas] Re: Suicide in Europe
- From: Mike Geary <jejunejesuit.geary2@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 20:10:20 -0600
My older brother emigrated to Denmark in 1965. I made fun of Denmark
remarking on how high their suicide rate was. Emory didn't try to deny it
or excuse it. He said, yes, when the Danes lose their ability to cope, they
kill themselves, whereas Americans kill each other. He said he'd prefer to
live among those who might kill themselves as opposed to those who might
kill him. Made sense to me.
The saying, "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem" rings
very true to those who are not suicidal. But the decision not to exist is
not a rational one. It's a screw up in brain chemistry. Lawrence's thesis
that the higher suicide rate in many European countries assumes that their
decisions was driven by perceptions of cultural malaise or whatever the hell
it is Lawrence accuses Europe of. That's just silly.
Mike Geary
Memphis
On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 5:47 PM, carol kirschenbaum <carolkir@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
> Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems this study merely says that
> suicide is more prevalent than murder. How else can one die, if not from
> illness or accident?
>
> ck
>
> On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 2:28 PM, Lawrence Helm <
> lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Judy,
>>
>>
>>
>> Thornton published his book in 2007. His references on the subject of
>> suicide are
>>
>>
>>
>> "European suicide rates: World Health Organization, *Suicide Prevention
>> in Europe *(2002),
>>
>>
>>
>> "American: National Institute for Mental Health, *In Harms Wary: Suicide
>> in America *(2003)."
>>
>>
>>
>> Thornton probably didn't have the 2004 edition of WHO's book on suicide
>> when he wrote his own book. Interestingly, WHO's reputation doesn't seem
>> sterling:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://info-wars.org/2009/11/26/world-health-organization-manufactured-the-global-swine-flu-scare-suspected-of-corruption/
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/111867
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.rense.com/general88/megawho.htm
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.forces.org/evidence/who/index.htm
>>
>>
>>
>> Of course Thornton's "suicide" has most to do with the reduction of the
>> production of children and the importation of immigrants to make up the
>> short fall so the European elderly can continue their retirement
>> entitlements. A lot that is in his book seems a rehashing of material
>> I've read elsewhere. My own tangent was based more on books I read about
>> Europe (including those by Tony Judt) after World War II than Thornton's
>> reference to actual suicide, that is, I had been thinking about that for
>> some time. Why the West has bifurcated, Western Europe one way and
>> America (or Anglo-America?) another is something I have an ongoing interest
>> in.
>>
>>
>>
>> Lawrence
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
>> lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Judith Evans
>> *Sent:* Friday, November 19, 2010 11:50 AM
>> *To:* lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> *Subject:* [lit-ideas] Re: Europe, World War II, Suicide and Jason Bourne
>>
>>
>>
>> I am not sure what the various figures actually measure, Lawrence, but for
>> what it's worth, reported/recorded suicide rates in European countries are
>> not uniformly higher than in the USA. Also I don't know what Thornton's
>> sources are, but mine say Luxemburg's figures are more or less identical to
>> the USA's. That leaves us, pending further investigation, with four
>> European countries with higher suicide rates than those of the US and of
>> other European countries.
>>
>> more importantly, Thornton says (I copy the quotation from your blog)
>>
>> "in many European countries, suicide is the second leading cause of death,
>> after accidents,"
>>
>> in fact, it's the second leading cause of death, *disease apart*, **among
>> teenagers** in Europe (according to a WHO report of 2004). (This teenage
>> suicide rate varies greatly across Europe.)
>>
>>
>> That's worrying but doesn't really support your overall thesis.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Judy Evans, Cardiff, UK
>>
>>
>>
>> and France's suicide rate is about twice that of the United States', as
>>
>>
>> --- On *Fri, 19/11/10, Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>*wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Subject: [lit-ideas] Europe, World War II, Suicide and Jason Bourne
>> To: "Lit-Ideas" <Lit-Ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Date: Friday, 19 November, 2010, 18:08
>>
>>
>> http://www.lawrencehelm.com/2010/11/europe-world-war-ii-suicide-and-jason.html
>>
>>
>>
>> Lawrence
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3266 - Release Date: 11/19/10
>>
>
>
Other related posts:
