Amazing coincidence. Western people came into close contact with Asians and Hinduism in the 19th century, thus Hinduism. Both Emerson and Heidegger and all discussing this took it from the Hindu concept of Brahman. That's my humble opinion, after two semesters of Asian philosophy. Which might or might not be correct. I am developing some kind of aversion to many Western philosophers. Must be the water in my well.
I think Mike nailed it.Happy New Year everyone. I am hoping for a more peaceful one, just because I like to phantasize. Still, I am at least in a good mood due to the great party at my home yesterday. At least one can have good friends.
Veronica Caley Milford, Mi.----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Geary" <atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 1:10 PM Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Richard Rorty, Nietzsche and Jungian Darwinism
Lawrence:The Oversoul isn't God....Emerson (who coined the word Oversoul) wrote: "That Unity, that OVER-SOUL, within every man's particular being is contained and made with all other; that common heart, of which all sincere conversation is the worship, to which all right action is submission; that over-powering Reality which confutes our tricks and talents, and constrains every one to pass for what he is, and to speak from his character; and not from his tongue, and which evermore tends to pass into our thought and hand, and becomes wisdom, and virtue, and power and the whole; and wise silence, the universal beauty, to which every part and particle is equally related; the eternal One."That sounds suspiciously like a definition of the Ground of Being, the all-encompassing Presence, the Ultimate Reality, the Absolute. True the viciousness of the God of Abraham is missing from Emerson's description, but God doesn't necessarily have to be evil.Previously you had written: "The Oversoul manipulates the general or collective actions of the individuals of a given species for its own good. It takes responsibility for a specie's 'survival strategy'.... the Oversoul involves intentionality."Hmmm --"Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven." You write:A better objection than any of those you voiced is "if each species has anOversoul to protect it, why have some species become extinct?Each species has an Oversoul? That's a hell of a lot of Oversouls crowded into one eternal One. Or do you think of the Oversoul as a kind of guardian angel? Each species assigned their own Clarence whose task is to prevent their charge's suicide? I don't know, Lawrence, I find that hard to believe lacking an Scriptural proof or Church teaching.You write:As to there not having been enough time to account for species through the pure randomness of natural selection. I believe that is generally acceptedby anthropologists today.I'll have to defer to Mr. McCreery on that one. I don't read much into Anthropology. All those dead people. Of course you might be referring to the anthropologists of the Discovery Institute. Whatever, I don't see any need to jump into the lap of paranormal instrumentality when Darwin will do quite nicely.You write:Shall we instead commit species suicide because we pollute?But, dear sir, pollution is the act of suicide. Are we as a species intelligent enough not to pollute? Yes. Are we too greedy in the here and now to care what happens in the future? Apparently so. Does not polluting mean turning against technology? On the contrary, it means embracing technology all the more.You wrote:Anti-technology was a strong element in Heidegger's philosophy. He was perhaps a semi-Luddite.My reading of Heidegger is different. He seems much more concerned with the mind-set that makes technology possible and which technology furthers than with technology itself. Again, I have no confidence in my reading of Heidegger, but he seems to me not to get much beyond the awe engendered by the realization that he exists. Somewhere, in "The Question Concerning Technology" I think, Heidegger says that the essence of technology forces us to think of the danger to the essence of man (whatever the hell it is that is the essence of man), thus technology is good in that it calls us back to our essence, all that the enduring business, the Being there stuff, etc., etc., etc. I hope you can follow that because I can't. But I think it is wrong to say that Heidegger is anti-technology. He is just a very minor poet lonesome for the good old days of Homer.Good luck to mankind with that rocketship to immortality. Happy New Year to all Mike Geary----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 12:04 PM Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Richard Rorty, Nietzsche and Jungian DarwinismMike, The second sentence in my "Comment" reads "Jung hypothesized a sort of"Oversoul" for each species." The Oversoul isn't God - although man seemsto want to worship something and in the absence of God he has turned to superstitions of various kinds; so he may have wanted to worship the Oversoul if Jung's ideas had caught on, but I don't think they did. The Oversoul for Homo Sapiens would presumably be more sophisticated than the Oversouls for the other species because it was, if I recall correctly, a projection of a given species - like the Mandala in his book on Flying Saucers.A better objection than any of those you voiced is "if each species has an Oversoul to protect it, why have some species become extinct? And since Iread Jung about 40 years ago I can't recall how Jung would have answered that objection.As to there not having been enough time to account for species through the pure randomness of natural selection. I believe that is generally accepted by anthropologists today. To compensate, Anthropologists have proposed theidea of periodic "jumps" caused, they argue, by such things as climate change and climate shifts. They find long periods of time with little change to the fossils; then there is some sort of geologic change. Theyfind an anomalous layer of sediment and after that the species are changed.And yes, another planet or better yet planets to pollute if that is anunalterable characteristic of our species. Shall we instead commit speciessuicide because we pollute? As soon as man gave up his hunter-gathererexistence and settled in little villages, he began to pollute. Actually he polluted earlier but sort of randomly over the countryside. But if he wasstaying mostly in his village then the pollution had to be nearby. Archeologists love his pollutions. They find bones of the animals hekilled, arrow and spear points and even the occasional evidence of murder.To suggest that we shouldn't hope for the continuation of our species because it doesn't behave as we think it should strikes me as rather unpragmatic and shortsighted and perhaps lemming-like. Anti-technology was a strong element in Heidegger's philosophy. He wasperhaps a semi-Luddite. Most nations he thought couldn't handle technology and were better off without it. Only the Germans, he thought, were capable of handling technology in the proper spiritual way. Also, there is a strongLuddite element in the Environmental camp, e.g., you want to progress through here? You will destroy the Spotted Owl if you do and thepreservation of the Spotted Owl is more important than your "progress." Yousay jobs will be lost? Tough! Better to lose your jobs than destroy one species. As to war, that too seems to be a characteristic of our species and good justification for spreading human kind over "Twelve Colonies" (in BSG thinking) rather than grouping them together on just one planet. As tofearing a powerful nation, well yes, humans have always done that. Rome's neighbors feared Rome, but Rome feared the Barbarians. That in itself isn't a criticism of Rome or the Barbarians, it is merely the way we humans relateto each other. LawrenceFrom: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Mike Geary Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 8:02 AM To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Richard Rorty, Nietzsche and Jungian Darwinism LH:The Oversoul manipulates the general or collective actions of theindividuals of a given species for its own good. It takes responsibilityfor a specie's "survival strategy".... the Oversoul involves intentionality.<< So you're bringing God back into the picture just when we thought we'dgotten rid of him, eh? Even Heidegger didn't blame God for this mess and hewas strict RC with German stridency. You're an incorrigible Romantic, Lawrence. But a complex one, what with your love of no-nonsense Sparta. You write:there hasn't been enough time since life began on earth to account for theJung's thesis would answer one of the objections to Darwinism, namely thatdevelopment of species with the randomness that Natural Selection involves.<< I've never come across that objection. Four billion years hasn't been enough time? What did the Oversoul do to speed up the process? Splicegenes? Something that ten thousand biology labs are doing today? Why thehell didn't he (or she) just splice up humans 4 million years ago? Ones already wearing lab coats. We could be on our way to Planet Newplacetopollute right now. It is a long ride, you know. Forget the Oversoul, Lawrence, except on Sunday. >> those who see the Earth as all there is want to take us in a Luddite direction: get rid of the machines. Get rid of Technology, and we can perhaps learn to bring ourselves back into harmony with nature. <<Well, yes, as you mentioned, there's Ted Kaczynski. And the other one?? I forget his name. I think he's still on the loose, isn't he? TechnologicalWorld, take heed, a Luddite is out to get you. Oh, and yes, let's not forget those damn Amish. They're a clear and present danger to our technological world. How will we ever get off this planet with themrefusing to drive a car. Heidegger wasn't opposed to technology per se, hejust didn't like what it does to the position of the Catholic Church.Technology makes us forget God by finding some other cause for this and thatand we forget the Bingo of being there. I don't know it means either.The Germans, some of them, seem to be worried about us.<<Yes, and some French and some Russians and some Canadians and some Mexicansand some Danes and some Swedes and some Italians and some Indonesians andsome Venezuelans and some Israelis and some Jordanians and some Iranians andsome Egyptians and some Syrians and some Texans and even some Argentines. So what's your point? Ah! Here it is: "If there is a Jungian Oversoul, thinking logically from the Jungian assumption, it might well be stirring things up to hasten our departure from earth." So, God is fomenting all this discord just so we'll get our shit togetherand get the hell out of Dodge before he/she starts raining fire down on it.Damn him/her! Always with the destruction. First the flooding, then the fires, then the locusts and frogs and rivers of blood. He/she is a very dramatic God, I must say. Some anger management issues though. But your main point is, and I agree with you, we've got to stop the Luddites. Kill them if necessary. It's shouldn't be so difficult, they only have their bare hands to fight with -- at least the true ones. Kaczinski was a phony Luddite using technology to fight technology. Not just phony, but unfair. No more Neville Chamberlainism, from here on out it's war, war, war. Level those goddamn mountains in Pakistan andAfghanistan. We've got the technology. Won't take but a sec. Then let's get busy making that rocket ship take'll us another solar system. One withan eternal. I can hardly wait to move into my new home on Planet Newplacetopollute.I'll buy a fixer-upper and sell it for ten times what I paid. My career hasjust begun. More plastic over here! Mike Geary obeying the Oversoul of Memphis------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off,digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html
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