[lit-ideas] Re: Richard Rorty, Nietzsche and Jungian Darwinism

  • From: "Walter C. Okshevsky" <wokshevs@xxxxxx>
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, Julie Krueger <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 15:49:26 -0330


Quoting Julie Krueger <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx>:

> Did someone disprove the notion that all life is dependent upon one another
> for existence, the idea that all life is interdependent, while I wasn't
> looking?
> 
> Julie Krueger

Yes. You may now pursue an independent life in whatever form and manner you
choose. 

Walter O, PhD
Department of the Unity of Theoretical and Practical Reason
Koenigsburg, Oklahoma





> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 12:04 PM, Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > wrote:
> 
> > Mike,
> >
> > The second sentence in my "Comment" reads "Jung hypothesized a sort of
> > "Oversoul" for each species."  The Oversoul isn't God - although man seems
> > to want to worship something and in the absence of God he has turned to
> > superstitions of various kinds; so he may have wanted to worship the
> > Oversoul if Jung's ideas had caught on, but I don't think they did.  The
> > Oversoul for Homo Sapiens would presumably be more sophisticated than the
> > Oversouls for the other species because it was, if I recall correctly, a
> > projection of a given species - like the Mandala in his book on Flying
> > Saucers.
> >
> > A better objection than any of those you voiced is "if each species has an
> > Oversoul to protect it, why have some species become extinct?  And since I
> > read Jung about 40 years ago I can't recall how Jung would have answered
> > that objection.
> >
> > As to there not having been enough time to account for species through the
> > pure randomness of natural selection.  I believe that is generally
> accepted
> > by anthropologists today.  To compensate, Anthropologists have proposed
> the
> > idea of periodic "jumps" caused, they argue, by such things as climate
> > change and climate shifts.  They find long periods of time with little
> > change to the fossils; then there is some sort of geologic change.  They
> > find an anomalous layer of sediment and after that the species are
> changed.
> >
> > And yes, another planet or better yet planets to pollute if that is an
> > unalterable characteristic of our species.  Shall we instead commit
> species
> > suicide because we pollute?  As soon as man gave up his hunter-gatherer
> > existence and settled in little villages, he began to pollute.  Actually
> he
> > polluted earlier but sort of randomly over the countryside.  But if he was
> > staying mostly in his village then the pollution had to be nearby.
> > Archeologists love his pollutions.  They find bones of the animals he
> > killed, arrow and spear points and even the occasional evidence of murder.
> >
> > To suggest that we shouldn't hope for the continuation of our species
> > because it doesn't behave as we think it should strikes me as rather
> > unpragmatic and shortsighted and perhaps lemming-like.
> >
> > Anti-technology was a strong element in Heidegger's philosophy.  He was
> > perhaps a semi-Luddite.  Most nations he thought couldn't handle
> technology
> > and were better off without it.  Only the Germans, he thought, were
> capable
> > of handling technology in the proper spiritual way.  Also, there is a
> > strong
> > Luddite element in the Environmental camp, e.g., you want to progress
> > through here?  You will destroy the Spotted Owl if you do and the
> > preservation of the Spotted Owl is more important than your "progress."
> >  You
> > say jobs will be lost?  Tough!  Better to lose your jobs than destroy one
> > species.
> >
> > As to war, that too seems to be a characteristic of our species and good
> > justification for spreading human kind over "Twelve Colonies" (in BSG
> > thinking) rather than grouping them together on just one planet.   As to
> > fearing a powerful nation, well yes, humans have always done that.  Rome's
> > neighbors feared Rome, but Rome feared the Barbarians.  That in itself
> > isn't
> > a criticism of Rome or the Barbarians, it is merely the way we humans
> > relate
> > to each other.
> >
> > Lawrence
> >
> > From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
> > lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > On Behalf Of Mike Geary
> > Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 8:02 AM
> > To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Richard Rorty, Nietzsche and Jungian Darwinism
> >
> > LH:
> > >>The Oversoul manipulates the general or collective actions of the
> > individuals of a given species for its own good.  It takes responsibility
> > for a specie's "survival strategy".... the Oversoul involves
> > intentionality.
> > <<
> >
> > So you're bringing God back into the picture just when we thought we'd
> > gotten rid of him, eh?  Even Heidegger didn't blame God for this mess and
> > he
> > was strict RC with German stridency.  You're an incorrigible Romantic,
> > Lawrence.  But a complex one, what with your love of no-nonsense Sparta.
> > You write:
> >
> > >>Jung's thesis would answer one of the objections to Darwinism, namely
> > that
> > there hasn't been enough time since life began on earth to account for the
> > development of species with the randomness that Natural Selection
> > involves.<<
> >
> > I've never come across that objection.  Four billion years hasn't been
> > enough time?  What did the Oversoul do to speed up the process?  Splice
> > genes?  Something that ten thousand biology labs are doing today?  Why the
> > hell didn't he (or she) just splice up humans 4 million years ago?  Ones
> > already wearing lab coats.  We could be on our way to Planet
> > Newplacetopollute right now.  It is a long ride, you know.  Forget the
> > Oversoul, Lawrence, except on Sunday.
> >
> >
> >  >> those who see the Earth as all there is want to take us in a Luddite
> > direction: get rid of the machines.  Get rid of Technology, and we can
> > perhaps learn to bring ourselves back into harmony with nature. <<
> >
> > Well, yes, as you mentioned, there's Ted Kaczynski.  And the other one?? 
> I
> > forget his name.  I think he's still on the loose, isn't he? 
> Technological
> > World, take heed, a Luddite is out to get you.  Oh, and yes, let's not
> > forget those damn Amish.  They're a clear and present danger to our
> > technological world.  How will we ever get off this planet with them
> > refusing to drive a car.  Heidegger wasn't opposed to technology per se,
> he
> > just didn't like what it does to the position of the Catholic Church.
> > Technology makes us forget God by finding some other cause for this and
> > that
> > and we forget the Bingo of being there.  I don't know it means either.
> >
> >
> > >>The Germans, some of them, seem to be worried about us.<<
> >
> > Yes, and some French and some Russians and some Canadians and some
> Mexicans
> > and some Danes and some Swedes and some Italians and some Indonesians and
> > some Venezuelans and some Israelis and some Jordanians and some Iranians
> > and
> > some Egyptians and some Syrians and some Texans and even some Argentines.
> > So what's your point?  Ah!  Here it is: "If there is a Jungian Oversoul,
> > thinking logically from the Jungian assumption, it might well be stirring
> > things up to hasten our departure from earth."
> >
> > So, God is fomenting all this discord just so we'll get our shit together
> > and get the hell out of Dodge before he/she starts  raining fire down on
> > it.
> > Damn him/her!  Always with the destruction.  First the flooding, then the
> > fires, then the locusts and frogs and rivers of blood.  He/she is a very
> > dramatic God, I must say.  Some anger management issues though.
> >
> > But your main point is, and I agree with you, we've got to stop the
> > Luddites.  Kill them if necessary.  It's shouldn't be so difficult, they
> > only have their bare hands to fight with -- at least the true ones.
> > Kaczinski was a phony Luddite using technology to fight technology.  Not
> > just phony, but unfair.  No more Neville Chamberlainism, from here on out
> > it's war, war, war.  Level those goddamn mountains in Pakistan and
> > Afghanistan.  We've got the technology.  Won't take but a sec.  Then let's
> > get busy making that rocket ship take'll us another solar system.  One
> with
> > an eternal.
> >
> > I can hardly wait to move into my new home on Planet Newplacetopollute.
> > I'll buy a fixer-upper and sell it for ten times what I paid.  My career
> > has
> > just begun.  More plastic over here!
> >
> > Mike Geary
> > obeying the Oversoul
> > of Memphis
> >
> >
> >
> 1
> 2
> 

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