[lit-ideas] Re: Diary of Public School Girl
- From: "Judith Evans" <judithevans1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 19:37:07 +0100
>"The Victorian public-school boy, the Gymnasiast or lycéen."
this makes slightly more sense in that (in the UK) though grammar schools
certainly
existed then, they appear to have been schools of Latin grammar till the
late nineteenth century, and they only took their modern form after 1944. Or so
Wikipedia says; but it also has an entry on my brother's second school, that
suggests something rather different:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowbridge_Grammar_School
>"Gymnasiast" seems to be Steiner's misreference to the German Gymnasium
Gymnasiast is correct (it is the term for a student at a Gymnasium) but neither
a gymnasiast nor a lyceen is comparable to a public schoolboy (despite
my comment above). ('Public-school
boy' may be a nineteenth-century wording!)
>Well, let's not be surprised if this "Diary of a Public School Girl"
>(1st edn. 1930, 2nd printing 1931) does _not_ qualify as what Geary
>call "mild erotica
:)
as you say, the Steiner thing may simply show he isn't (wasn't) British
Judy Evans, Cardiff
----- Original Message -----
From: Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 6:28 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Diary of Public School Girl
Thanks, Judy. She quotes my:
>> 'public school boy': Lyceen, gymnast
and comments:
>doesn't make sense, does it? 'grammar school boy' would.
Well, yes. The original OED quote reads:
"The Victorian public-school boy, the Gymnasiast or lycéen."
George. STEINER In Bluebeard's Castle (1971), p. 85
I am reminded now that George Steiner was born in Paris, so possibly he is
not very _knowledgeable_ (although he's so pretentious he possibly thinks he
is) about "Victorian public school boy".
For starters, I don't like the 'implication' of Victorian. Literally that
means,
"The 1837-1901 public school boy"
which hardly constitutes a 'natural kind' as philosopher Kripke would call
it.
I'm surprised, but must say I like the 'lyceen' bit, since it _is_ a little
tribute to Aristotle and his Lyceum -- which has SOMETHING to do with a wolf --
but R. Paul will know the Greek -- whom I hope is not too heavy to lift as he
sleep-writes.
"Gymnasiast" seems to be Steiner's misreference to the German Gymnasium.
The OED gives three matches for 'public school girl', below. The three from
the same source, "Diary of a Public School Girl" (1930), and in entries for
"hefty" ( 1867), "maugre" (1300) and "sarky" (1912).
>when I Googled for a suitable url [for 'public school girl']
>I found some porny-looking sites!
Well, let's not be surprised if this "Diary of a Public School Girl" (1st
edn. 1930, 2nd printing 1931) does _not_ qualify as what Geary call "mild
erotica".
So there.
Cheers,
JL
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