Walter O. wrote: "The distinction between certainty and knowledge is indeed an interesting one. Wittgenstein spent a considerable amount of time in Cambridge and at Malcolm's house in [insert the correct American city] trying to show that Moore's hand-waving proved nothing. Hence, Moore's 'proof of an external world' was unsuccessful." It seems to me that Wittgenstein aimed to show that it made no sense to talk of a proof, successful or otherwise, of an external world. One has to, as it were, stand somewhere to get any argument regarding an external world off the ground. Sitting in Indonesia, Phil Enns ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html