[lit-ideas] Re: Anarchism and Leftism
- From: "Simon Ward" <sedward@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 20:12:13 +0100
I seem to have touched a sore spot again Lawrence. No apologies.
1. I stand by my view that the US right has a methodology of attacking the left
rather than presenting its own ideology. I also believe that you have used the
same method.
2. I too support a nation's right to defend itself, but I'm not convinced that
Israel is engaged in such an activity. The story about a Hezbollah 'invasion'
now seems to be doubtful and it appears to be just as likely that an IDF
incursion resulted in eight killed and two captured inside the Lebanese border.
If this war did result from an Israeli incursion, then I see it as a war of
agression on the part of Israel.
3. If this is an aggressive war then we need to examine Israel's motives. Is it
about an expansion and annexation of Lebanese territorey up to the Litani
River? Or is it purely about removing the threat of Hezbollah?
4. The answers to those questions may arise through Israeli reaction/response
to the UN resolutions as they arise.
5. Fundamentally, I distrust Israel because it's stance on terrorism is
hypocritical considering its history. I also believe that it has used the
holocaust as an excuse for its actions and that it uses the label
'anti-semitic' as a blanket response to its critics.
6. As far as terrorism goes, I would personally shoot a person who I knew 100
per cent was about to commit a terrorist act (ie kill people). However, I also
believe that the actions of the US under Bush has served to increase the number
of terrorists; that the US under Bush has created enemies rather than
eliminating them and I believe that the US under Bush is using this 'war on
terrorism' to further an international agenda focussed on securing capital
markets and controlling energy resources.
Now, if you behave accordingly Lawrence, I expect you to misrepresent my points
so that you can pour scorn on 'the left'. Will you oblige?
Simon
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence Helm
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:32 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Anarchism and Leftism
I am quite sure that I have spent more time discussing my ideas than you have
yours. I can't think of a single area where I haven't discussed my ideas; so
you are speaking junk to avoid the subject. My "methods" indeed.
Let is move to the meat: Where do you stand on Hizbollah and Israel. As I
HAVE SAID my position is that I support a nation's right to defend itself
against an invading terrorist organization [AS YOU WELL KNOW]. Wasn't it you
that quibbled when I said that previously that only a dozen or so came across
that border and that didn't really comprise an invasion? And wasn't it you
that argued that Israel over reacted just because Hizbollah killed only 8 or so
and kidnapped only two more? Didn't you say that? But as I have said and as
you well know, I support Israel's right to "eliminate Hizbollah." Is any of
this coming back to you now? Someone quibbled that "eliminate" sounded like
what the Nazis did to the Jews and I, responding to that typical quibble,
explaining that the elimination of a terrorist organization was not the same as
the elimination of individuals.
Everyone knows what I think about these matters. But what do you think
Simon? Do you support Hizbollah or Israel in this current war? Or do you take
some "out" as Andreas does and assume an anarchic position: a pox on all their
houses?
Lawrence
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Simon Ward
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 11:19 AM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Anarchism and Leftism
It's not an attack, Lawrence, it's an analysis of your methods. You seem keen
to discuss other people's ideas even to the extent of willfully misrepresenting
the views of the opposition as you see it, but you are less keen to discuss
your own ideas, or the ideas of the collective group you seem to represent.
I would imagine that some people on the list get tired of being told what
they think and I for one would like to hear what your views are past the point
of what you think about 'the left'.
So tell us, Lawrence, what do the right think. And if you can manage it try
and leave out what the right thinks about the left.
Simon
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence Helm
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 6:45 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Anarchism and Leftism
I did notice that none on the Left saw fit to discuss the ideas in the
MEMRI dispatch. I did notice that none saw fit to discuss the ideas in my
comments. All anyone wanted to do was quibble about my reference to
"leftists." As though none on the Left really knew what Leftism meant.
In Andreas article I recognized arguments I'd seen coming from the Left
before except for his comment which could only be described as anarchic. Why
do you think there is an attack here Simon? What attack? Andreas made a
comment and I looked it up. Where is the attack? I did see an attack in your
note. Did it take up the issue of the Saudi, Egyptian or PLO opposition to
Hizbollah's adventurism? No, You don't see fit to do that. Does it take up a
discussion of the Left's association with Anarchism (which is the subject of
the note you seem to be responding to)? No, you didn't see fit to do that.
All you saw fit to do was the very thing you accuse the Right of doing,
"attack," and yet you do it ineptly. There is no substance to your attack. It
can't be pinned to anything concrete.
Lawrence
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Simon Ward
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 10:09 AM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Anarchism and Leftism
Interesting that Lawrence's response, as so often, is an attack on the
views of the political opposition rather than a defence of his own position.
As far as I see it, this is a common thread in US right wing politics. Try
a Google search on "What the left thinks" and you'll get the idea.
Is this because the right are afraid of the left or is it because they have
an effective policy vaccuum?
Incidentally, British politics have become so centralised that there is
little or no distinction between left and right.
Simon
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