[lit-ideas] Re: A Movie [longish]
- From: Omar Kusturica <omarkusto@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 18:05:58 -0700 (PDT)
Lawrence,
I've read your note, but I may not have given it the
attention you think it deserved. Here is a brief
reply:
1. If militant Islam is defined as those who seek to
kill the infidel merely for being an infidel, neither
the Hamas nor the Hezbollah fall into this category.
2. I know that you "discussed" the numbers in the
previous note. Are we any closer now to knowing the
exact number ?
3. I did. The only practical recommendation you gave
was to bomb Iran's nuclear facilities. I don't wish to
go into discussing the supposed merits of that again
but certainly this, even if implemented, wouldn't
amount to 'eliminating militant Islam.' (Unless you
envisage an escalation into a full-scale nuclear war.)
4. You obviously haven't given any thought to that.
I also don't "feel a particular urge to discuss this
with you," so that I will confine myself to these
remarks.
O.K.
--- Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Omar, I don't feel a particular urge to discuss this
> with you, and since you
> didn't read all of my note your claim to want to
> discuss something is not to
> be credited.:
>
>
>
> 1) I discussed this in the note you are responding
> to; so you shouldn't be
> asking this question. However I'll elaborate a bit
> just to be sociable:
> Militant Islam has two main parts to it. The first,
> Islamism, is an
> ideology that has grown up around the teachings of
> Wahhabism, Salafism,
> Maududi, Al Banna, Sayyid Qutb and Khomeini. It
> advocates a Fundamentalist
> adherence to the Sharia, but most important for us
> and important in their
> thinking is the advocacy of the Jihad for the
> furtherance of their doctrine.
> They advocate violence against the governments of
> the nations they find
> themselves in for after all these are but remnants
> of Colonialism and the
> new leaders are worse than the old Colonialists.
> They advocate violence
> against those who do not adhere to the Sharia
> because such people are the
> same as infidels. They advocate violence against
> infidels. Killing
> Civilians is okay because all infidels deserve
> death. Killing infidels
> while blowing yourself up is a noble thing and
> individuals who do that are
> to be praised as martyrs. Within Islamism are
> activist organization like Al
> Quaeda, Hamas and Hezbollah, but anyone is entitled
> to strap bombs to
> himself and blow up infidels. It is all good. The
> near-term goal is to
> reclaim all the land previously held by Islam
> including Andalusia. The
> ultimate goal is to claim the entire world for
> Islamism.
>
>
>
> The second part is Pan-Arabism. This ideology
> advocates the return of the
> Caliphate and an elimination of borders created by
> Europeans after WWI.
> There is but one ummah and there should be but one
> leader over the ummah.
> Nassar was the first modern Pan-Arabist who wanted
> to lead the Arabian Umma.
> Later Saddam Hussein sought to be that leader. With
> the elimination of
> Saddam Hussein, the Pan-Arabist aspect of Militant
> Islam has been largely
> neutralized. The weakest link, Syria, still exist
> as ostensibly advocating
> this view.
>
>
>
> 2) I discussed this in the note you are responding
> to so you shouldn't be
> asking this question, but I'll elaborate further
> just to be sociable: The
> numbers of militant Islam were discussed in the note
> you are responding to.
> I don't understand what more you want. We are here
> dealing with a very
> backward people not much given to free speech,
> opinion polls, etc., so
> "experts" can but guess. You and I debated this
> matter in the past. You
> felt the Moderates were more numerous than the
> Militants. I found no
> evidence from this. I only heard the Militants
> speaking out. There were no
> Moderates speaking out in the Middle East. So they
> are either numerous but
> silent or not numerous. The one estimate I saw is
> that 30% of the
> 300,000,000 Arabs were Militants, but I suspect the
> number is much larger.
> If the Majority were Moderates surely they would
> find some means of speaking
> their moderation and this hasn't occurred to my
> knowledge. Some
> post-colonial governments oppose Islamism but we
> hear the Islamists are
> barely kept in check in those nations. Moderates
> don't even dare to speak
> out there -- in Egypt for example.
>
>
>
> 3) You didn't read the rest of my note, did you?
>
>
>
> 4) What do I expect the rest of the world to do
> when? You obviously didn't
> read my note. You and Irene both have a very bad
> habit of just reading a
> line or two and making an assumption about the rest
> of the note. That might
> be okay if you weren't all so inclined to dash off a
> note asking for a
> response that is contained in the note you obviously
> didn't read. This is
> always irritating and the older I get the more I am
> inclined to say so.
>
>
>
> Lawrence
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Omar Kusturica
> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 4:58 PM
> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: A Movie [longish]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Paul,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I just turned on my computer and was surprised to
>
> > find 36 notes in my
>
> > Lit-Ideas inbox, this note (your initial note) and
>
> > 35 following. I
>
> > appreciated your note and read it twice. I didn't
>
> > appreciate the notes
>
> > following that attempted to take things off on a
>
> > tangent or quibble about
>
> > how many people you want to destroy.
>
>
>
> *Well, Lawrence, I am sorry to interfere in your
>
> exchange of ideological pronouncements with a new
>
> comrade, but there is a couple of quibbles here. If
>
> you are seriosuly proposing to 'eliminate militant
>
> Islam,' you should be able to explain at least:
>
>
>
> 1. What is 'militant Islam' ?
>
> 2. How many proponents does it have, and how can
> they
>
> be identified ?
>
> 3. How is 'eliminating' to be done, and by whom ?
>
> 4. What do you expect the rest of the world is going
>
> to do ?
>
>
>
>
>
> When that is clarified, we could perhaps discuss
> your
>
> proposal seriously.
>
>
>
> O.K.
>
>
>
>
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