Re: completely uninstalling jaws & DriveScrubber
- From: "Will Pearson" <will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 14:46:51 -0000
Hi;
Some products, such as Norton's WipeInfo, give you a choice of what to wipe.
You can wipe the whole hard drive, although I wouldn't recommend doing this
under a Windows session, or just the free space on the hard drive. Free
space includes areas of the hard drive previously occupied by files, but not
areas of te hard drive that currently contain non-deleted files, and this is
the one I would recommend doing prior to getting rid of your computer. Even
if you're just going to throw it in the trash, there's no guarantee that
somewhere down the line someone won't pull the hard drive out of it, giving
them access to all your personal information you stored on that hard drive.
Will Pearson
Microsoft MVP (Visual Developer/VC++)
For more information on the MVP Program, go to:
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Capelle" <michaelcapelle@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 11:51 PM
Subject: Re: completely uninstalling jaws & DriveScrubber
> But if I use nortons whipe info, and select drive c:\, won't that whipe it
> where it will not boot, meaning it will delete all my info.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Angel" <angel238@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 5:43 PM
> Subject: Re: completely uninstalling jaws & DriveScrubber
>
>
> >I wiped my hard drive a couple of times with Norton's utility and my jaws
> > key was destroyed. Why was this. I don't wipe anymore.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Will Pearson" <will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 8:26 AM
> > Subject: Re: completely uninstalling jaws & DriveScrubber
> >
> >
> >> Hi;
> >>
> >> Firstly, these sort of programs don't wipe a whole hard drive. The
only
> > way
> >> to do that is to format the hard drive, or nuke the sectors of the HD
> >> containing the file allocation table, which will leave the data on the
> > drive
> >> but render the drive inoperable, as the O/S won't know which drive
> >> sectors
> >> to read in order to get the file data. Instead, what they do is to
wipe
> > all
> >> sectors of a hard drive that once contained data but that have been
> > flagged
> >> in the file allocation table as being available to be overwritten.
This
> >> will mean that all files that haven't been deleted won't be affected,
> >> however those that have been deleted will have the space they once
> > occupied
> >> on the hard drive overwritten with garbage. This will render it
> > impossible
> >> to recover the data that these files contained.
> >>
> >> As you cite a process running within the shell of the O/S, this
shouldn't
> > be
> >> a problem. All processes, and any threads they create run in logical
> >> storage, or memory. Once you load a program it's code is automatically
> >> transferred to memory, where it's executed until the application quits,
> >> crashes, etc. and the program is unloaded from memory, and all memory
is
> >> returned to the available pool of memory, unless there's been any
memory
> >> leaks, in which case some but not all will be returned.
> >>
> >> What you may be trying to infer, is that Windows is a dynamic operating
> >> system, which loads bits in to memory from the hard drive as they are
> >> required. As these drive cleaning programs don't touch files that
exist,
> >> including the memory swap file, any operating system files won't be
> >> interfered with by this category of application. So, Windows will
still
> > be
> >> able to load components in as it needs them, although it's worthwhile
not
> >> using any other applications whilst using a drive cleaning program, as
> > these
> >> may create tempory files that may not get cleaned.
> >>
> >> So, Windows won't be damaged, nor fall over, as a result of using a
drive
> >> cleaning program. It's sole purpose is to wipe areas of a hard drive
> > where
> >> files once resided but where they reside no more, not to wipe
everything
> > off
> >> a hard drive. If you want to completely wipe a hard drive, and aren't
a
> >> programmer, the only way you can do this is to exit to DOS, as DOS
> >> completely resides in memory, and format the hard drive.
> >>
> >> Will Pearson
> >> Microsoft MVP (Visual Developer/VC++)
> >> For more information on the Microsoft MVP Program, go to:
> >> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Sean McMahon" <smcmahon@xxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 8:59 PM
> >> Subject: Re: completely uninstalling jaws & DriveScrubber
> >>
> >>
> >> > Perhaps the website explains this, but how do you use this program to
> >> clean a
> >> > drive when you have to have a process running in an operating system
to
> >> make it
> >> > work.
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "red" <red2003@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 12:31 PM
> >> > Subject: Re: completely uninstalling jaws & DriveScrubber
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > Hi
> >> > >
> >> > > http://www.iolo.com/ds/
> >> > >
> >> > > DriveScrubber allows you to safely pass-on your hard drives, safe
in
> > the
> >> > > knowledge that your personal data is 100% gone, and your data
> > completely
> >> > > destroyed. Best of all, DriveScrubber is quick and simple to use,
and
> >> works
> >> > > with any PC, regardless of the drive's format
> >> > >
> >> > > DriveScrubber is a utility designed to securely wipe all data from
> >> > > any
> >> hard
> >> > > or floppy drive, regardless of its file format or operating system.
> > Its
> >> > > purpose is to ensure the safety, privacy, and security of private,
> >> > > personal, confidential, or proprietary information.
> >> > >
> >> > > Once a drive has been wiped with DriveScrubber, no attempts
> > (regardless
> >> of
> >> > > their level of sophistication) will be able to recover any data
that
> >> > > previously existed thereon.
> >> > >
> >> > > Good Luck
> >> > > preston
> >> > >
> >> > > At 05:13 PM 05/12/2004, you wrote:
> >> > > >Hi Will, I just want to say thanks for all the information that
you
> >> alway
> >> > > >post. Unlike some people who a lot of times leave one line
answers.
> >> > > >I
> >> really
> >> > > >like all the information that you give. I save your posts so I can
> >> refer to
> >> > > >it when need be. I like to learn as much as I can. Keep those
> >> informative
> >> > > >posts coming!
> >> > > >----- Original Message -----
> >> > > >From: "Will Pearson" <will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > > >To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > > >Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 6:37 AM
> >> > > >Subject: Re: completely uninstalling jaws
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > Hi;
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > I think it's probably the authorisation key that you are
thinking
> >> of. The
> >> > > > > authorisation key is located in the jfw.cps folder in the root
of
> >> drive
> >> > > > > c:.
> >> > > > > The key is the file named jfw.cps within this folder. The
> >> > > > > folder,
> >> and
> >> > > > > presumably the file, have both the hidden and system file
> > attributes
> >> set,
> >> > > > > so
> >> > > > > you will have to select to view system files from within the
> > folder
> >> > > > > options
> >> > > > > multi page dialog.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > If someone's removed the authorisation key using hjauth, and
> >> uninstalled
> >> > > > > JAWS using the uninstall scripts for InstallShield and they
have
> >> problems
> >> > > > > reinstalling, then it would make me suspicious of a silent
> > failiure
> >> in one
> >> > > > > of the uninstallation routines. By a silent failiure, I mean
> >> > > > > that
> >> the
> >> > > > > uninstaller has encountered a problem uninstalling something
and
> > not
> >> told
> >> > > > > the user about it. The uninstaller may have tried to correct
the
> >> problem,
> >> > > > > it may not have, it may have crashed out with an unhandled
> >> exception, or
> >> > > > > whatever, it's up to the programmer's, in this case those for
> >> > > > > InstallShield,
> >> > > > > as to how they handle these situations. Under normal
operations
> >> > > > > everything
> >> > > > > should install and uninstall fine, however, if a system
develops
> >> "system
> >> > > > > rot", which it will do over time, then you can notice problems
> > both
> >> with
> >> > > > > installation and uninstallation of software, as well as
operation
> > of
> >> > > > > software. Some registry keys and values can go awry, files on
> >> > > > > the
> >> hard
> >> > > > > drive can be corrupted, and settings go wrong. This can mean
> >> > > > > that
> >> an
> >> > > > > uninstaller that works fine under normal conditions will
develop
> >> proglems
> >> > > > > under systems with "system rot", likely leaving components
> > installed
> >> that
> >> > > > > it
> >> > > > > otherwise would have removed. Software developers can't do
> > anything
> >> about
> >> > > > > this really, as the problems depend on what has gone rotten
> >> > > > > within
> >> the
> >> > > > > system, something that varies with each instance of "system
rot".
> >> So, if
> >> > > > > you notice uninstallers not removing components, including
> > registry
> >> > > > > values,
> >> > > > > which you think they should have, uninstallers developing
> >> > > > > problems
> >> or
> >> > > > > hangs
> >> > > > > during uninstallation, or abnormal execution of the software,
> >> > > > > then
> >> it
> >> > > > > might
> >> > > > > be time to consider formatting the hard drive and starting
again.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > These are exceptional circumstances, but are circumstances that
> >> occur from
> >> > > > > time to time, and all software packages can be affected, not
just
> >> JAWS.
> >> > > > > If
> >> > > > > you frequently install and uninstall software, not necessarily
> >> > > > > the
> >> same
> >> > > > > package as different packages are likely to cause it just as
> >> > > > > much,
> >> then
> >> > > > > this
> >> > > > > can increase the risk of "system rot". Equally, software that
> >> > > > > has
> >> had a
> >> > > > > modified installation routine, such as pirated and illegal
> > software,
> >> will
> >> > > > > significantly increase the risk of "system rot" and things not
> >> working
> >> > > > > properly.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Will Pearson
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Microsoft MVP (Visual Developer/VC++)
> >> > > > > For more information about the MVP program, go to:
> >> > > > > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
> >> > > > > ------ Original Message -----
> >> > > > > From: "chevelle" <chevelle33@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > > > > To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 11:14 PM
> >> > > > > Subject: Re: completely uninstalling jaws
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >> Hi Will, there was a thread on this subject. From time to time
> > for
> >> what
> >> > > > > ever
> >> > > > >> reason, someone would uninstall Jaws. Then they would try to
> >> reinstall
> >> > > > > jaws,
> >> > > > >> and try to authorize it. They would get a message saying that
> > they
> >> all
> >> > > > > ready
> >> > > > >> had an existing copy of jaws on the hard drive. Debbie Scales
at
> >> one time
> >> > > > >> posted the name of the file, and where to go to delete it, but
I
> >> can't
> >> > > > > find
> >> > > > >> that post. That is why I am wanting to know how to completely
> >> remove
> >> > > > >> Jaws
> >> > > > >> from the computer. btw thanks for all that info.
> >> > > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > > >> From: "Will Pearson" <will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > > > >> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > > > >> Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 12:33 PM
> >> > > > >> Subject: Re: completely uninstalling jaws
> >> > > > >>
> >> > > > >>
> >> > > > >> > Hi;
> >> > > > >> >
> >> > > > >> > JAWS has one of the better set of uninstallation scripts
> > around.
> >> Some
> >> > > > >> > uninstallers do leave keys and values in the registry that
> > will,
> >> in all
> >> > > > >> > likelyhood, cause abnormal software operation under some
> >> circumstances,
> >> > > > >> > however, the keys and values that JAWS leaves behind, some
of
> >> which are
> >> > > > >> > auto
> >> > > > >> > generated by Windows, won't cause abnormal software
operation.
> >> So,
> >> > > > > unless
> >> > > > >> > you really know what you are doing when editing a registry,
I
> >> would
> >> > > > > leave
> >> > > > >> > them in there, as editing the wrong keys and values will
cause
> >> your
> >> > > > > system
> >> > > > >> > to develop unexpected behaviour, and wil probably require
you
> > to
> >> format
> >> > > > >> > your
> >> > > > >> > hard drive and start again.
> >> > > > >> >
> >> > > > >> > Whilst uninstallation of any software is an important aspect
> > when
> >> > > > >> > transferring machines between owners, so as to remain within
> > the
> >> > > > >> > conditions
> >> > > > >> > defined in the individual EULAs for each piece of software,
> >> security of
> >> > > > >> > personal data should also be considered. When you delete
> > files,
> >> such
> >> > > > >> > as
> >> > > > >> > those in My Documents, they're not actually deleted, even
when
> >> you
> >> > > > >> > empty
> >> > > > >> > the
> >> > > > >> > Recycle Bin. The 1's and 0's that represent the data on the
> > hard
> >> drive
> >> > > > >> > are
> >> > > > >> > still present, and all that happens is that the file name in
> > the
> >> file
> >> > > > >> > allocation table changes to indicate that the sectors
> > previously
> >> > > > > occupied
> >> > > > >> > by
> >> > > > >> > that file can be written to once more. Therefore, if
someone
> >> were to
> >> > > > > come
> >> > > > >> > along with an unerase tool, such as Unerase Wizard from
> > Symantec,
> >> they
> >> > > > >> > could
> >> > > > >> > recover those files without too many problems. The only way
> >> > > > >> > to
> >> ensure
> >> > > > >> > this
> >> > > > >> > doesn't happen, is to overwrite those sectors of the hard
> > drive.
> >> This
> >> > > > >> > happens quite a lot in normal use, where you're deleting
files
> >> and then
> >> > > > >> > overwriting that space with new files, but if you're
deleting
> >> files
> >> > > > > prior
> >> > > > >> > to
> >> > > > >> > handing the machine over, then these new files are unlikely
to
> > be
> >> > > > > created
> >> > > > >> > and there's nothing to overwrite the old data on the hard
> > drive.
> >> > > > > There's
> >> > > > >> > two ways to get around this. Firstly, you can format the
hard
> >> drive
> >> > > > >> > and
> >> > > > >> > reinstall Windows and all the necessary device drivers, or
you
> >> can use
> >> > > > >> > a
> >> > > > >> > tool such as WipeInfo, which is part of Norton Utilities
from
> >> Symantec,
> >> > > > > to
> >> > > > >> > write a set of 1's and 0's to the free space on your hard
> > drive,
> >> > > > >> > overwriting
> >> > > > >> > all that personal data with garbage.
> >> > > > >> >
> >> > > > >> > It's certainly something worth considering, and not
something
> >> > > > >> > a
> >> lot of
> >> > > > >> > people are aware of, as recently highlighted on BBC
Breakfast
> >> News,
> >> > > > >> > when
> >> > > > >> > they ran a piece on a report highlighting this security
> >> vulnerability
> >> > > > >> > in
> >> > > > >> > businesses.
> >> > > > >> >
> >> > > > >> > Will
> >> > > > >> >
> >> > > > >> > Microsoft MVP (Visual Developer/VC++)
> >> > > > >> > For more information on the MVP Program, go to:
> >> > > > >> > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
> >> > > > >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > > >> > From: "chevelle" <chevelle33@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > > > >> > To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > > > >> > Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 4:06 PM
> >> > > > >> > Subject: Re: completely uninstalling jaws
> >> > > > >> >
> >> > > > >> >
> >> > > > >> >> No, I am not talking about removal of the authorizaation
key.
> > I
> >> am
> >> > > > >> >> talking
> >> > > > >> >> about complete removal of Jaws from the hard drive. Even if
> > you
> >> > > > > uninstall
> >> > > > >> >> jaws from the add/remove I believe there is still something
> >> related to
> >> > > > >> > jaws
> >> > > > >> >> in the registery.
> >> > > > >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > > >> >> From: "Horspool, Matthew F." <drjaws@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > > > >> >> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > > > >> >> Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 3:11 AM
> >> > > > >> >> Subject: RE: completely uninstalling jaws
> >> > > > >> >>
> >> > > > >> >>
> >> > > > >> >> > Hi:
> >> > > > >> >> >
> >> > > > >> >> > At a guess I would say he means the Authorization key as
> >> during an
> >> > > > >> >> > uninstall JAWS does not request a removal of the
> > authorization
> >> key.
> >> > > > > If
> >> > > > >> >> > anyone can say differently, please speak up!
> >> > > > >> >> >
> >> > > > >> >> > You can find authorization information in a file called
> >> > > > >> >> > Quella authorization key guide.txt
> >> > > > >> >> > If you are using JAWS 4.51 and below, the file is called
> >> > > > >> >> > Authorization key guide.txt
> >> > > > >> >> > I think 3.5 and below called it
> >> > > > >> >> > Authoriz.txt
> >> > > > >> >> > Or something like that. I can't be certain.
> >> > > > >> >> >
> >> > > > >> >> > HTH,
> >> > > > >> >> > Matthew
> >> > > > >> >> >
> >> > > > >> >> > -------------------------
> >> > > > >> >> > Mr. Matthew F. Horspool
> >> > > > >> >> >
> >> > > > >> >> > Send me an Electronic Mail to
> >> > > > >> >> > drjaws@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > > >> >> >
> >> > > > >> >> > Add
> >> > > > >> >> > horspool@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > > >> >> > to your MSN contact list
> >> > > > >> >> >
> >> > > > >> >> > Or Visit my web site at
> >> > > > >> >> > http://www.horspool.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk
> >> > > > >> >> > -------------------------
> >> > > > >> >> >
> >> > > > >> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > > >> >> > From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> >> > > > >> >> > Behalf Of chevelle
> >> > > > >> >> > Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 4:09 AM
> >> > > > >> >> > To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > > >> >> > Subject: completely uninstalling jaws
> >> > > > >> >> >
> >> > > > >> >> > Hi, after you uninstall jaws from the add/remove or from
> >> > > > >> >> > the
> >> tools
> >> > > > >> >> > options of jaws. I think someone on this list said to
> >> completely
> >> > > > > remove
> >> > > > >> >> > Jaws you have to remove something from the registery. Is
> > that
> >> right?
> >> > > > > If
> >> > > > >> >> > so what do you remove from the registery to completely
> > remove
> >> jaws
> >> > > > > from
> >> > > > >> >> > the hard drive. Thanks.
> >> > > > >> >> > --
> >> > > > >> >> > To post a message to the list, send it to
jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > > >> >> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> >> > > > >> >> > jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in
the
> >> subject
> >> > > > >> >> > line.
> >> > > > >> >> > Archives located at:
//www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >> > > > >> >> >
> >> > > > >> >> > If you have any concerns about the list, post received
from
> >> the
> >> > > > >> >> > list,
> >> > > > >> >> > or
> >> > > > >> >> > the way the list is being run, do not post them to the
> >> > > > >> >> > list.
> >> Rather
> >> > > > >> >> > contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > > >> >> >
> >> > > > >> >> >
> >> > > > >> >> >
> >> > > > >> >> > --
> >> > > > >> >> > To post a message to the list, send it to
jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > > >> >> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> >> > > > >> >> > jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in
the
> >> subject
> >> > > > >> >> > line.
> >> > > > >> >> > Archives located at:
//www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >> > > > >> >> >
> >> > > > >> >> > If you have any concerns about the list, post received
from
> >> the
> >> > > > >> >> > list,
> >> > > > >> >> > or
> >> > > > >> >> > the way the list is being run, do not post them to the
> >> > > > >> >> > list.
> >> Rather
> >> > > > >> >> > contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > > >> >>
> >> > > > >> >> --
> >> > > > >> >> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > > >> >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> >> > > > >> > jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the
> >> subject
> >> > > > >> > line.
> >> > > > >> >> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >> > > > >> >>
> >> > > > >> >> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from
> > the
> >> list,
> >> > > > > or
> >> > > > >> > the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list.
> >> Rather
> >> > > > >> > contact
> >> > > > >> > the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > > >> >>
> >> > > > >> >
> >> > > > >> >
> >> > > > >> > --
> >> > > > >> > To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > > >> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> >> > > > >> > jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the
> >> subject
> >> > > > >> > line.
> >> > > > >> > Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >> > > > >> >
> >> > > > >> > If you have any concerns about the list, post received from
> >> > > > >> > the
> >> list,
> >> > > > >> > or
> >> > > > >> > the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list.
> >> Rather
> >> > > > >> > contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > > >>
> >> > > > >> --
> >> > > > >> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > > >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> >> > > > > jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the
> >> > > > > subject
> >> line.
> >> > > > >> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >> > > > >>
> >> > > > >> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from
the
> >> list, or
> >> > > > > the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list.
> > Rather
> >> > > > > contact
> >> > > > > the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > > >>
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > --
> >> > > > > To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> >> > > > > jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the
> >> > > > > subject
> >> line.
> >> > > > > Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the
> >> list, or
> >> > > > > the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list.
> > Rather
> >> > > > > contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > >
> >> > > >--
> >> > > >To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > >To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> >> > > >jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject
> >> line.
> >> > > >Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >> > > >
> >> > > >If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the
> >> > > >list,
> >> or
> >> > > >the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list.
Rather
> >> > > >contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > --
> >> > > To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> >> > jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject
> >> > line.
> >> > > Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >> > >
> >> > > If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the
list,
> > or
> >> the
> >> > way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather
contact
> >> the list
> >> > owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> >> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject
line.
> >> > Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >> >
> >> > If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list,
> >> > or
> >> the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather
> > contact
> >> the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> > jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.
> >> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >>
> >> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list,
or
> > the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather
> > contact
> > the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > --
> > To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> > jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.
> > Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >
> > If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or
> > the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather
> > contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> --
> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.
> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
>
> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or
the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact
the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
--
To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.
Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the
way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact the
list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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