P.S. to the below: I'm partially sighted and, even though I don't have the central vision that would allow reading, I can get a sense of the appearance of a page. So I just double-checked the description I gave you, and I see that It had been so long since I'd really bothered looking at the screen while reading on the Web, thanks to Jaws, that I'd forgotten how most of the types of pages I mentioned are set up as Jaws sees them. That's with all the global nav links running down against one margin or the other so that if you arrow or tab through them, you do indeed go down screen after screen after screen, while the page content occupies the main part of the page, but you can't get to it unless you learn, as I've learned, and I'm sure you've learned, too, the various Jaws tricks for skipping out of the sidebar with the navigational links into the main content. For instance, by pressing H to see if where you're trying to go has a heading, or P for some text longer than a link label, and so forth. Let me go look at an entirely different (I think) page design, that of Audible.com, or Amazon. Hang on... This is educational. Sorry I spoke so quickly... Well, Audible is the same thing. And I know it doesn't really look this way normally, because the tech support used to taell me to look at a link iat the top in the middle of the page, or on the right, and so forth, until more of them were trained on a machine running jaws, to better help the blind customers. I just looked at amazon.com, and that's the same thing I saw there. None of this is "regular" web design. In other words, all the global navigational links appear one beneath the other in a kind of sidebar down one side of the page, and if you arrow down or tab down through them, you see it sliding upward as you do so (not you going down a bunch of screens). And that list has a border along the edge of it opposite the screen margin, and otn the other side of that border is the actual page. Anyway. That's what it looks like. Which isn't how these pages look to a sighted person,eaxaimple,...roe ver ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 7:11 PM Subject: Re: Legacy Support for Internet Explorer: what does it do? Jim, Given the fact that, for instance, a Jaws version of, let's say, a New York times page with an article has its global navigational links to various other sections and services left aligned and occupying many screens before you get to the beginning of the article, whereas in the real version of the page the links are disabled across the top and/or down either side in a pattern entirely different from that, I would beg to disagree. Sighted friends are startled to see how unlike the Jaws virtual view of a Web page is from the way it was designed. (My own usual strategy with things like this is to click on the Print version of an article in order to cut the navigational links and other disruptions down almost to zero, so that all I'm navigating, practically, is the text of the article plus usually a link to the terms of Privacy or something like that. Again, Jaws completely disrupts the design of a web page. I understand that Window Eyes leaves it looking normal, but this isn't important to me as I'm just concerned with getting around a page with Jaws, not with getting a sense of its real layout. but the real layout is one thing, and the version of the page that the virtual Buffer displays when Jaws is running is very different, a primitive affair of a long row of links down the left margin followed by other screen elements just sort of stacked up any way that will preserve tab order for Jaws, and then page content beginning at some point. Not the same. I hope this is more clear. Thanks. the entnaviumer----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Grimsby JR." <jimgrims@xxxxxxxxxxx> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 6:18 PM Subject: RE: Legacy Support for Internet Explorer: what does it do? JAWS DOES NOT IN ANY WAY CHANGE THE WAY THE WEB PAGE LOOKS. ALL JAWS DOES IS PROVIDES YOU THE BLIND USER WITH ACCESS TO THE WEB PAGE IN AN ORDERLY MANOR WITCH MAKES SCENCE TO A SPEECH USER. HTH -----Original Message----- From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Yardbird Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 3:12 PM To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: Legacy Support for Internet Explorer: what does it do? Hi Chris, thanks for the response. From the way you mention scrolling, and other things you say, I gather that this all had to do with the ability of sighted people to use the computer while Jaws is running. It sounds like that, anyway. Thing is, when my sighted friends have used my computer to go online to see something on the Web, I just always remind them to exit Jaws with Insert F4, which they all know to do now, so I never worried about that. The fact that, as I understand it, Jaws rearranges every Web page you visit with it turned on, that's something I don't care to impose on sighted friends anyway. they want to see the Web page as it's supposed to look. So maybe the whole legacy matter is simply not an issue, as we used to say, for me. Am I understanding this correctly? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Jenkins" <saveup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 3:01 PM Subject: RE: Legacy Support for Internet Explorer: what does it do? The way Jaws for Windows interacts with a webpage changed in 7.1. I'm not sure what the changes were exactly. But I know with the new way Jaws for Windows interacts with the webpage the webpage does not scroll down until you get to the bottom of the webpage and it needs to scroll. On the other hand with Jaws for Windows 7.0 and earlier the webpage scrolled when it should not scroll which made it difficult for a sighted person to see what the computer is saying. In my opinion they left the legacy support in version 7.1 until they could get the bugs worked out to their satisfaction in version 8. I guess in their opinion they believe legacy support is no longer necessary. I hope this helps. Chris. -----Original Message----- From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Yardbird Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 10:43 AM To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Legacy Support for Internet Explorer: what does it do? I understand from recent posts that a feature with this name must've been introduced in Jaws 7.1 (it doesn't appear among the Configuration manager's HTML/Misc. options on my Jaws 7) and has disappeared in Version 8. What did it do? More aspecifically, what sort of problem did it solve? Personally, I don't have any Web navigation issues to complain of at the moment, so maybe that's part of why I'm perplexed. Can anyone explain what the story is with this legacy support deal? Thanks. -- JFW related links: JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/ Scripting mailing list: http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com JFW List instructions: To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. 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