rose honestly, i prefer the jfw interface over win eyes, but maybe you should consider some of what works the easiest out of the box may not be the best long term in all cases. for instance here are a few examples. youmention artic win vission, well its keyboard layout is terrible, and not easy to learn. but once you learn it you never have to leave the home row and that in turn means terrific boast in productivity. it also means that much of same configuration works on note books as the standard desktop configuration. so you need only learn it once. another example, the accent synth. when i first started using it i thought this sucks compaired to dec talk. later i learned its sucky voice was maid up by its incredible fast response. in both of the above one needed more than a weekend to make the adjustment. by the way i am not trying to sell you on win eyes, only pointing out that jfw can do a betterjob in catching andfixing bugs. if you where on a differant list you would see i echo some of your same complaints about win eyes, but as i said thats for another list. other complaints you have show your inexperience with the product. but i am not blaming you for that because to some degree their docs suck. the third party stuff from the guy in england is vastly superior and gets one up and running much faster, but probably stillnot as fast as jfw. jfw has a keyboard learn mode that the competition lacks and better help in the program. bill p s win eyes supports eloquence and access 32. both are included. -- To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx