[jaws-uk] Re: Editting a Word doc, format problem?

From: "Robin Clayden" <r.clayden@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 14:20:46 +0100
Hi Phil,

I take back my wee swipe at jfw and handling these forms, as in this
case, to me it seems the form is not properly constructed. Even when
listing the form fields with insert F5, it's a mess.

George, hope you don't mind, I'll bung you a look at it for yourself,
maybe you'll see its faults better?

Cheers, Robin.

-----Original Message-----
From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Phil Medway
Sent: 20 April 2006 13:46
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Editting a Word doc, format problem?


Hi again folks,

One further note on this subject ...

I sent Robin a small text file which I thought I had gleaned from a web=20
site, containing instructions on how to create accessible forms in Word
but=20
have since realised that it came from the Jaws help system.

Detail on where to find this information in Jaws follows:

To get to the Jaws help on protected document forms in Word, do the=20
following:

When in Word, hold down the JawsKey and press f1 twice quickly.

Press f6 to switch to the information panel.

Tab to the "Jaws helpful hints" link and press enter.

Tab to the "protected Word forms" link and press enter.

Here you will find information on how to use protected document forms.=20
There is a link on this page called "creating accessible forms in Word".

Clicking this link will take you to a page detailing how to create a=20
protected document containing form fields which will work with Jaws.


HTH,

Phil Medway.

----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Phil Medway" <philmedway@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 12:58 PM
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Editting a Word doc, format problem?


Hi Maggie and all,

The down side of unprotecting documents is that you might,
inadvertently, mess up their pretty formatting or overwrite some other
important information already in the document.

HTH,

Phil Medway.

----- Original Message -----=20
From: "MaggieMoore" <maggie_moore@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 11:20 AM
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Editting a Word doc, format problem?


Thanks for that Robin.  And thank you Phil.  This is something really
useful to know.

Maggie
----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Robin Clayden" <r.clayden@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 10:51 AM
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Editting a Word doc, format problem?


> Hi Tim, Phil and Maggie,
>
> Thanks to you all for your feedback. Didn't have much joy by saving it

> as .rtf, but as Phil suggested, I unprotected the document via the=20
> tools menu, was then able to read, navigate and even add comments and=20
> edit options easily. Then I just resaved the document.
>
> That worked a treat, so I'll just zapp it back to them with a few=20
> comments.
>
> I find it incredible that such an innocuous document can so easily=20
> screw up our wonderful world leading Jaws screen reader... But also,=20
> when you're dealing with blind and VI users and completing and=20
> editting forms, why on earth do they worry about layout and=20
> presentation, keep it plain and simple! *steam*
>
> Being into web design a bit myself, it's not even that difficult that=20
> they could put a good accessible electronic online form up on their=20
> website for completion, instead of this e mail attachment idea.=3D20
>
> Cheers, Robin.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
> [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of tim.pennick@xxxxxx
> Sent: 20 April 2006 10:20
> To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Editting a Word doc, format problem?
>
>
> Hi Robin,
>
> It's the bit about navigation and editing being restricted that's the=20
> giveaway.  Try saving it as RTF and see if you can navigate it more=20
> easily, or select, copy and paste the whole lot into another document.

> It was something like this that got me out of the problem, but I can't

> remember exactly what.  As I said, I'd get back to the GDBA if I were=20
> you, as if you fix it privately, then they'll continue to send the=20
> form out to others who will duplicate your effort.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tim=3D3D20
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
> [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Robin Clayden
> Sent: 20 April 2006 10:05
> To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Editting a Word doc, format problem?
>
> Hi Tim, Phil, Maggie,
>
> Routing jfw to pc you can read through the document with the arrow=20
> keys no problem, but to attempt editting answers, well it's a=20
> nightmare. Here's what the F1 help said about it Tim,
>
> You can type text in this edit field or navigate using standard=20
> reading commands. This is a document window. This is an Edit form=20
> field in which you can type information. Edit the text with standard=20
> editing commands. To move between fields use Tab and Shift+Tab. This=20
> is a cell in column 2 row 4 in table 1 which has 6 rows. The table is=20
> non-uniform, which means that each row may have a varying number of=20
> columns, or a cell may span more than one row. This particular row has

> 2 columns. At least one cell in this table spans more than one column.

> The document contains 2 tables. The document contains 49 fields. The=20
> document contains 1 objects in the drawing layer.  JAWS can only=20
> detect objects in the Text Layer. To attempt to place Drawing Layer=20
> objects in the Text Layer press
> Alt+Control+Shift+C.
> Document protection status is:
> Allow only form fields
> This means that navigation and editing is restricted.
> Grammar is checked as you type.
>
>
> For Office XP:
> List smart tags in this document  JAWSKey+Alt+Shift+S Show Smart Tag=20
> Actions menu  JAWSKey+Control+Alt+S=3D3D3D20
>
>
> Cheers, Robin.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
> [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of tim.pennick@xxxxxx
> Sent: 20 April 2006 09:52
> To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Editting a Word doc, format problem?
>
>
> Robin,
>
> I've had the same problem, and as Phil Medway says, its probably=20
> caused by the document having been set up as a form which is always=20
> going to give JAWS problems.  You can find out by hitting insert-f1. =20
> JAWS should tell you if it has been set as a form.  I remember having=20
> to do something involving removing password control over the document=20
> with which I had this problem, but I'd have thought its really down to

> the GDBA to get this sorted out.  If anyone can be expected to supply=20
> accessible documents to blind people it ought to be them.  Have you=20
> tried telling the person that supplied you with the form that you=20
> can't fill it in?  They must have come across this problem before,=20
> though this may be yet another symptom of the problems caused by the=20
> decentralisation of the association.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tim Pennick=3D3D3D3D20
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
> [mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Robin Clayden
> Sent: 20 April 2006 08:55
> To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jaws-uk] Editting a Word doc, format problem?
>
> Hi all,
>
> It's difficult to explain what is happening here without maybe someone

> on here accepting the document as an attachment off list and looking=20
> at it for themselves.
>
> Basically it's a guide dog monthly report form I need to complete and=20
> return to GDBA Forfar, but Jaws just doesn't read it well at all. It's

> in .doc format and tables layout, and tabbing or arrowing through it=20
> is just a nightmare, skipping past questions etc. It is almost=20
> impossible to navigate as you just don't have a consistent idea of=20
> your position in the page.
>
> I have tried it on both here and at home, fiddling around with the=20
> view settings and the only bit of success in reading the thing is if I

> route jfw to pc, but then that doesn't help when you need to insert=20
> comments or answers to the questions. I had to save it as a text=20
> document, fill in answers and then re save it back to .doc, but surely

> I shouldn't have to faff around like that?
>
> Anyone like to have a look?
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Robin Clayden, Switchboard.
> Edinburgh College of Art.
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[jaws-uk] Re: Editting a Word doc, format problem?

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