[jaws-uk] Re: Editting a Word doc, format problem?

From: "George Bell" <george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:52:13 +0100
This is an excellent article, and is one well worth passing
on to Word forms designers.

It's actually a better description of Forms Creation that in
given in Word Itself. =20

Full marks to Freedom's author for this one.

George.

-----Original Message-----
From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Phil
Medway
Sent: 20 April 2006 12:46
To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Editting a Word doc, format problem?

Hi again folks,

One further note on this subject ...

I sent Robin a small text file which I thought I had gleaned
from a web site, containing instructions on how to create
accessible forms in Word but have since realised that it
came from the Jaws help system.

Detail on where to find this information in Jaws follows:

To get to the Jaws help on protected document forms in Word,
do the
following:

When in Word, hold down the JawsKey and press f1 twice
quickly.

Press f6 to switch to the information panel.

Tab to the "Jaws helpful hints" link and press enter.

Tab to the "protected Word forms" link and press enter.

Here you will find information on how to use protected
document forms.=20
There is a link on this page called "creating accessible
forms in Word".=20
Clicking this link will take you to a page detailing how to
create a protected document containing form fields which
will work with Jaws.


HTH,

Phil Medway.

----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Phil Medway" <philmedway@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 12:58 PM
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Editting a Word doc, format problem?


Hi Maggie and all,

The down side of unprotecting documents is that you might,
inadvertently,
mess up their pretty formatting or overwrite some other
important
information already in the document.

HTH,

Phil Medway.

----- Original Message -----=20
From: "MaggieMoore" <maggie_moore@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 11:20 AM
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Editting a Word doc, format problem?


Thanks for that Robin.  And thank you Phil.  This is
something really useful
to know.

Maggie
----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Robin Clayden" <r.clayden@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 10:51 AM
Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Editting a Word doc, format problem?


> Hi Tim, Phil and Maggie,
>
> Thanks to you all for your feedback. Didn't have much joy
by saving it
> as .rtf, but as Phil suggested, I unprotected the document
via the tools
> menu, was then able to read, navigate and even add
comments and edit
> options easily. Then I just resaved the document.
>
> That worked a treat, so I'll just zapp it back to them
with a few
> comments.
>
> I find it incredible that such an innocuous document can
so easily screw
> up our wonderful world leading Jaws screen reader... But
also, when
> you're dealing with blind and VI users and completing and
editting
> forms, why on earth do they worry about layout and
presentation, keep it
> plain and simple! *steam*
>
> Being into web design a bit myself, it's not even that
difficult that
> they could put a good accessible electronic online form up
on their
> website for completion, instead of this e mail attachment
idea.=3D20
>
> Cheers, Robin.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of tim.pennick@xxxxxx
> Sent: 20 April 2006 10:20
> To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Editting a Word doc, format
problem?
>
>
> Hi Robin,
>
> It's the bit about navigation and editing being restricted
that's the
> giveaway.  Try saving it as RTF and see if you can
navigate it more
> easily, or select, copy and paste the whole lot into
another document.
> It was something like this that got me out of the problem,
but I can't
> remember exactly what.  As I said, I'd get back to the
GDBA if I were
> you, as if you fix it privately, then they'll continue to
send the form
> out to others who will duplicate your effort.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tim=3D3D20
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Robin Clayden
> Sent: 20 April 2006 10:05
> To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Editting a Word doc, format
problem?
>
> Hi Tim, Phil, Maggie,
>
> Routing jfw to pc you can read through the document with
the arrow keys
> no problem, but to attempt editting answers, well it's a
nightmare.
> Here's what the F1 help said about it Tim,
>
> You can type text in this edit field or navigate using
standard reading
> commands. This is a document window. This is an Edit form
field in which
> you can type information. Edit the text with standard
editing commands.
> To move between fields use Tab and Shift+Tab. This is a
cell in column 2
> row 4 in table 1 which has 6 rows. The table is
non-uniform, which means
> that each row may have a varying number of columns, or a
cell may span
> more than one row. This particular row has 2 columns. At
least one cell
> in this table spans more than one column. The document
contains 2
> tables. The document contains 49 fields. The document
contains 1 objects
> in the drawing layer.  JAWS can only detect objects in the
Text Layer.
> To attempt to place Drawing Layer objects in the Text
Layer press
> Alt+Control+Shift+C.
> Document protection status is:
> Allow only form fields
> This means that navigation and editing is restricted.
> Grammar is checked as you type.
>
>
> For Office XP:
> List smart tags in this document  JAWSKey+Alt+Shift+S Show
Smart Tag
> Actions menu  JAWSKey+Control+Alt+S=3D3D3D20
>
>
> Cheers, Robin.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of tim.pennick@xxxxxx
> Sent: 20 April 2006 09:52
> To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jaws-uk] Re: Editting a Word doc, format
problem?
>
>
> Robin,
>
> I've had the same problem, and as Phil Medway says, its
probably caused
> by the document having been set up as a form which is
always going to
> give JAWS problems.  You can find out by hitting
insert-f1.  JAWS should
> tell you if it has been set as a form.  I remember having
to do
> something involving removing password control over the
document with
> which I had this problem, but I'd have thought its really
down to the
> GDBA to get this sorted out.  If anyone can be expected to
supply
> accessible documents to blind people it ought to be them.
Have you
> tried telling the person that supplied you with the form
that you can't
> fill it in?  They must have come across this problem
before, though this
> may be yet another symptom of the problems caused by the
> decentralisation of the association.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tim Pennick=3D3D3D3D20
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:jaws-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Robin Clayden
> Sent: 20 April 2006 08:55
> To: jaws-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jaws-uk] Editting a Word doc, format problem?
>
> Hi all,
>
> It's difficult to explain what is happening here without
maybe someone
> on here accepting the document as an attachment off list
and looking at
> it for themselves.
>
> Basically it's a guide dog monthly report form I need to
complete and
> return to GDBA Forfar, but Jaws just doesn't read it well
at all. It's
> in .doc format and tables layout, and tabbing or arrowing
through it is
> just a nightmare, skipping past questions etc. It is
almost impossible
> to navigate as you just don't have a consistent idea of
your position in
> the page.
>
> I have tried it on both here and at home, fiddling around
with the view
> settings and the only bit of success in reading the thing
is if I route
> jfw to pc, but then that doesn't help when you need to
insert comments
> or answers to the questions. I had to save it as a text
document, fill
> in answers and then re save it back to .doc, but surely I
shouldn't have
> to faff around like that?
>
> Anyone like to have a look?
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Robin Clayden, Switchboard.
> Edinburgh College of Art.
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[jaws-uk] Re: Editting a Word doc, format problem?

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