[ibis-macro] Re: BIRD121: New AMI params (Supporting_Files) in context of BIRD116
- From: Todd Westerhoff <twesterh@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: Taranjit Kukal <kukal@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 07:36:56 -0500 (EST)
Kukal,
Consider the case where an Algorithmic Model "RX.dll" has two external data
files "a.dat" and "b.dat" that contain data for the filtering function. Let's
also say the model expects "a.dat" and "b.dat" to be present in the directory
the simulation is run in (meaning, if the .dll tries to open the files without
a pathname prepended, it expects them to be there).
Supporting_Files tells the simulator the names of any files (and their relative
locations) that have to be present for the model to work properly. DllPath is a
related parameter; it tells the model what directory it is being executed in,
because there are cases where that is important.
Todd.
--
Todd Westerhoff
VP, Software Products
SiSoft
6 Clock Tower Place, Suite 250
Maynard, MA 01754
(978) 461-0449 x24
twesterh@xxxxxxxxxx
www.sisoft.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Taranjit Kukal" <kukal@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: twesterh@xxxxxxxxxx, "IBIS-ATM" <ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 12:10:33 AM
Subject: RE: [ibis-macro] Re: BIRD121: New AMI params (Supporting_Files) in
context of BIRD116
Hi Todd,
While I agree with you that “Supporting_Files” could be useful for ami-code to
operate fully – but I am still not convinced as to what prevents it from being
part of ‘EXTERNAL-MODEL’ –
Probably, what I need is a better example than what is in BIRD-121 that clearly
shows how these support-files are to be used by ami-code; and that why it needs
to be reserved-parameter.
Rgds
..kukal
From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Todd Westerhoff
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 6:53 PM
To: 'IBIS-ATM'
Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: BIRD121: New AMI params (Supporting_Files) in context
of BIRD116
Arpad & Kukal,
Walter is out of the office for a few days, so I thought I’d answer this one
for him.
The applicability of Supporting_Files isn’t limited to supplying analog model
data. There are models that have side data files to support their filtering
function, and models that have other executables they call to perform
calculations for them. In both cases, the “Supporting_Files” mean nothing to
the AMI simulator, but must be imported into the project (and put in the proper
location) for the model to operate properly.
The example provided in BIRD 121
| (Supporting_Files (Usage Info)(Type String)
| (List "my_stuff_dir" "m1.s4p" "m2.s4p" "m3.s4p")
| (Description "Additional files that support this model")
| )
Included a directory called “my_stuff_dir” for this reason.
Todd.
________________________
Todd Westerhoff
VP, Software Products
SiSoft
6 Clock Tower Place, Suite 250
Maynard, MA 01754
(978) 461-0449 x24
twesterh@xxxxxxxxxx
www.sisoft.com
From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Muranyi, Arpad
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 1:56 AM
To: IBIS-ATM
Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: BIRD121: New AMI params (Supporting_Files) in context
of BIRD116
Kukal,
I should really let Walter respond to this, but since I know
he is out for a couple of days, I will give my understanding
of it.
As far as I can tell, Supporting_Files is for the tool, not
the model (Usage Info). For this reason, it would make sense
to make it a Reserved Parameter, because in that section we
can spell out what it means and what the tool should do with
it. Model_Specific parameters can’t be explained by the
specification, because their meaning is specific to each model
and only the model maker knows what should be done with them.
But Supporting_Files is not solely designed for the channel
characterization files, as you see it because of the example.
I agree, analog model files could/should be included through
other mechanisms, which is the way I am doing it in my analog
modeling BIRDs, but you have to keep in mind that Walter’s
(natural) interest is to support his own analog modeling
BIRD (122) where this type of model inclusions may be
necessary. But this is just a “bias” on the examples, not
the only purpose of this parameter. If we end up voting
down BIRD 122 and go with the other BIRDs, we may want to
change these examples, but the rest of this BIRD may still
be OK.
Thanks,
Arpad
===============================================================
From: Taranjit Kukal [mailto:kukal@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 10:47 PM
To: Muranyi, Arpad; IBIS-ATM
Subject: RE: [ibis-macro] Re: BIRD121: New AMI params (Supporting_Files) in
context of BIRD116
Hi Arpad,
Thanks for following up on this.
My point here is that we should not be needing "Supporting_Files" as a key ami
parameter. Such needed files can always become part of Model_Specific section
and can have any parameter-name depending on how ami-code wants to use such
files .
If these supporting files are NOT to be used by AMI-code but are meant for use
for Analog-channel characterization (as it seems to be the case for the example
where s4p files look to be representing package or onchip sparams) then these
have to be tackled in EXTERNAL_MODEL / ISS - Use of such s-param files in ami
is an overkill and defeats the purpose of ISS.
rgds
..kukal
From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Muranyi, Arpad
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 10:35 PM
To: IBIS-ATM
Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: BIRD121: New AMI params (Supporting_Files) in context
of BIRD116
Kukal,
Correct me if I misunderstood your comments on BIRD 121.
To follow up on my last reply I brought the question up
in one of the last ATM meetings and found out that the
“Supporting_Files” AMI parameter can have file and/or
directory entries.
| "Supporting_Files" is an AMI parameter of Type String, Usage Info, Format
List
| that contains a list of the files the model requires in addition to the DLL
or
| shared object file. In the specified List, each String is the relative path
| from the .ibs file directory to one supporting file or directory.
|
| Example:
|
| (Supporting_Files (Usage Info)(Type String)
| (List "my_stuff_dir" "m1.s4p" "m2.s4p" "m3.s4p")
| (Description "Additional files that support this model")
| )
So this parameter may be used as a “search path” as well as
“file pointer”.
Please let us know if you have more questions or comments on
this topic.
Thanks,
Arpad
=============================================================
From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Muranyi, Arpad
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2011 3:08 AM
To: IBIS-ATM
Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: BIRD121: New AMI params (Supporting_Files) in context
of BIRD116
Kukal,
Thanks for the clarification.
My understanding of BIRD 121 is that this is the equivalent of
the “search path” in HSPICE or similar tools. This is not where
the files are instantiated. In light of that, we may need to
discuss whether it is appropriate to include file names instead
of just path names, but we didn’t get to a detailed discussion
on this BIRD yet.
Thanks,
Arpad
==================================================================
From: Taranjit Kukal [mailto:kukal@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 8:20 AM
To: Muranyi, Arpad; IBIS-ATM
Subject: RE: [ibis-macro] Re: BIRD121: New AMI params (Supporting_Files) in
context of BIRD116
Hi Arpad,
What I meant is that the BIRD116 covers s-parameters as part of [External
Model] and that is the right place-holder.
Even if AMI code needs to work in conjunction with Spice files (or s-param
files), then those files need to be either under [External Model] OR should be
referred through model-parameter (Not reserved) in .ami file.
The inclusion of s-parameters as part of AMI section (.ami file) with use of
'Supporting_Files' Reserved-keyword is not required.
AMI should not hold anything other than ami-code related parameters.
rgds
..kukal
From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Muranyi, Arpad
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 10:41 PM
To: IBIS-ATM
Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: BIRD121: New AMI params (Supporting_Files) in context
of BIRD116
Kukal,
I would like you to clarify what you are saying here
because it is not clear what you are referring to in
your last sentence:
“ we do not need this anymore ”
Does this refer to BIRD 121 mentioned in the subject
line, or are you talking about not needing BIRD 116?
Thanks,
Arpad
===========================================================
From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Taranjit Kukal
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 1:06 AM
To: IBIS-ATM
Subject: [ibis-macro] BIRD121: New AMI params (Supporting_Files) in context of
BIRD116
Hi,
All supporting files (s-params or otherwise) should be scope of [External
Model] -
These s-param files do not have anything to do with AMI C-code. The fact that
BIRD116 covers s-params as part of [External Model] and allows working of same
in conjunction with AMI, we do not need this anymore.
thoughts?
rgds
..kukal
Taranjit Kukal | Product Engineering Architect
P: 91 120 3984000 www.cadence.com
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