[geocentrism] Re: mathmatical illogic
- From: geocentric@xxxxxxxxxxxx
- To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 02:51:21 +0100
> What is logical thought. I think a lot depends on the artistic
> nature/training or lack of it in different indivuals. What is logical
> to one is not so to another, yet both are correct and true, even
> though contradictory. Is this relevant to this list. I think it is,
> because it might explain the divisions. (pun intended)
No it doesn't. Logic is the structure of argument devoid of meaning.
If we can't agree on logic (e.g. maths) discussion is futile.
> When this kid 12years was first asked at pre high school, 7th grade
> what was 1 divided by zero during math, I said the answer 1. Now I
> was ruled as wrong, even though I still believe today that I was
> logically correct.
I too had many ideas about infinities, dividing by zero, etc. that were
just wrong. Better brains than mine had figured out the only consistent
way to deal with these things. I like to think I learnt from them
rather than think my 7th grade intuition new better.
> You see, I said you cannot divide a quantity by nothing. Zero was
> nothing, and therefore not a quantity.
So far so good, you can't divide by zero. But zero is a quantity.
> It took a heck of a long time
> to accept their convention, and then understand that in the jargon of
> math the answer was infinity.
It's not. There is no answer, you can't divide by zero.
> In the beginning 1/4 represented a quantity to me, not a
> representation of an operation. It was a quarter. 1 divided by 4 was
> an operation. and my answer was different then to yours and mine
> today, because I had to accept the conventions or I was a done chook.
> Here is the more logical equation as I saw it then.
You have to precisely define what you mean when you use a mathematical
symbol. Division is well defined in conventional mathematics.
> 1 divided by 4 = 4 X 0.25 It is logical that if someone asked
> you what do you get if you divided 1 apple by 4 you would get four
> 1/4's of an apple. not one quarter. That is a balanced equation.
> So you see, the wrong question was asked. It should be What would one
> person get if the apple was divided between four people. Then the
> answer is 0.25 or 1/4.
Ok, you misunderstood the question. Now you know what people mean when
they say 1 divided by 4. I remember being confused about many things.
I've never been arrogant enough to think that my stupidity says
something profound about mathematics.
> 20 divided by 5 = 5 X 4 This is a balanced equation. Even
> after accepting that the line between two quantities becomes an
> operator, equivalent to division, then we still have a balanced
> equation in the following
>
> 20/5 = 5 X 4
Come on, you're just being silly, surely you're creasing yourself
laughing at the thought of our reactions to this nonsense.
> What should the logical question have been to arrive at the desired
> answer of 4?
>
> I said it above. But the problem lies in the method of forming the
> mathmatical concepts at the beginning.
No, you just misunderstood the definition of division, get over it, we
all have misconceptions when we're learning.
> Einstein would have had no
> problem because he had a brain geared to numbers and operations of
> them.
I'm no Einstein, but I don't remember getting so confused over division.
> I was given an apple to divide up. That was the mistake. But it also
> was the reality. The truth.
TRUTH, what are you on about. Division is well defined, you
misunderstood it but now know better. If you want to define an
operation that gives you the sum of the parts when you divide something
in to x pieces fine, it's also known as the identity function, so what.
> x/4 = 4 X 0.25x That is still a balanced equation isn't
> it.
Not if '/' means divide in the conventional sense no, it's not, it's
false. If we go to dinner and split the bill you type in the amount of
the bill into your calculator, hit the "divide" button and then type in
the number of people. If I did that and told you that your share of the
£120 bill was £120 and referred you to your treatise on maths I think
you would disagree.
> Alan and I today would write x divided 4 = 0.25x But we are
> obviously wrong. Any fool with half a brain can see that if you
> divide an x by 4 you still must have four quarters of an x left on
> the other side.
Half a brain? What's that? A brain divided by two? You mean a whole
brain then? I agree, with only half a brain (conventionally speaking)
one might well see that, I think three quarters is sufficient to see
that you're talking complete testicles.
> So back to the start. To balance the equation, 1 divided by Zero
> must = zero X infinity X 1. . On ,my logic then 0 X infinity = 1
> and so the equation balances
>
> Problems Using conventional math. 1/0 = infinity 2/0
> = infinity. Therefore 1 must be equal 2. Whis not true.
Why not? 1=2 seems fine to me. By MY logic when I was 2 one apple
split in half equalled two halfs so 1 bit of apple was equal to 2 bits
of apple.
Seriously though, 1/0 does not equal anything, 2/0 also does not equal
anything. a/x where a is constant tends towards infinity as x tends
towards 0 but that's not quite the same.
> But if you balance the equations according to my logic.
>
> 1/0 = 0 X infinity X 1 2/0 = 0 X infinity X 2
> Therefore 1 does not equal 2 but the equation is nonsence as much as
> the first because of the 2 infinities.
Nonsense indeed.
> So this kid was right from the beginning, it is a stupid concept to
> divide an apple by something as small as nothing, to feed an infinite
> number of kids with nothing. The boss still get to keep the apple. So
> 1/0 =1
It is a stupid concept to divide an apple by nothing, that's why it's
not possible. To feed an infinite number of kids with nothing is
actually infinity divided by 0, also not defined. I don't see an apple
in that equation.
Have you been drinking?
Regards,
Mike.
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