[geocentrism] Re: World/Moon system
- From: "philip madsen" <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 06:34:55 +1000
No animosity Paul. I simply meant that I found nothing simple in your
simplifications.
Philip.
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Deema
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 6:02 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: World/Moon system
Philip M
I am quite serious here, no joke. If I've made a school-boy howler, please --
point it out.
I know these simplifications are false in that they don't exist precisely as
shown. However it is only to facilitate an explanation. The details, which I
confess are too complex for me to calculate, can be filled in once the concept
is validated. Besides, you are on record as supporting me in the past when I
made simplifications for the same reasons as here. How is it that this time
I've punched your button?
After I'd made the post and went to bed, I was unhappy with my explanation
and I will re-do it tonight. Watch this space.
And to save space, I'll make a comment in passing. Your post to Jack re
'Proof of heliocentricity' is starkly clear -- it rates 10 on the lucidity
scale. Well done!
Paul D
----- Original Message ----
From: philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism list <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, 23 May, 2008 10:56:33 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: World/Moon system
First a few simplifications -
Paul, you are having a go at me! Surely.. go kick this idea around some
more
Philip.
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Deema
To: Geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 1:16 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: World/Moon system
Greetings all. For your consideration I offer the following -
World/Moon system From Neville Jones Mon May 19 20:02:46 2008
"Diagrams, comments, thoughts, one-way tickets to the Gulag, ... toss
them all into the pot and let's see what comes out."
I've been kicking this idea around for a while and this invitation seems
timely.
First a few simplifications -
The Earth's orbit is a circle; the Moon's orbit is a circle; The Moon's
orbit lies in the plane of the ecliptic; the
Earth/Moon barycentre is at the centre of gravity of the Earth.
Next, some approximate dimensions -
The Earth's orbit has a radius of 150 * 10^6 km; The Moon's orbit has a
radius of 384 * 10^3 km; the Earth revolves
at 360/365.25 = 0.986 deg/day; the Moon revolves at 360/27.322 = 13.2
deg/day; the Earth has an orbital speed of 30
km/s; the Moon has an orbital speed of 1.0 km/s.
At full moon, the Moon has a cumulative speed of 30 + 1 = 31 km/s while at
new moon it will be 30 - 1 = 29 km/s.
Therefore the Moon at full moon in one day will traverse an angle of atan (
31 km/s * 86400 s / (150 * 10^6) + (384 * 10^3) km ) =
1.020 deg while at new moon the corresponding angle will be atan ( 29 km/s
* 86400 s / (150 * 10^6) - (384 * 10^3) km ) = 0.959 deg -- a difference of
almost 0.061 deg/day. Plotted on the circumference of a circle of radius 10 m,
this angle represents
a shade under 11 mm.
If we place the Moon without the Earth at a point on the Earth's orbit and
hold it in a fixed position, it will
continue to rotate on its axis at a rate of 13.2 deg per day. A shadow from
a sun dial on its surface will move from
West to East at 13.2 deg per day. Alternatively, if we place the Moon alone
on the Earth's orbit but cause it to
orbit the Sun in its own right, and we stop its rotation on its axis, then
a shadow from the same sun dial will move
from East to West at a rate of 0.986 deg per day. Restoring its rotation
while retaining its revolution, we will find
that the shadow will move in a West to East direction at 13.2 - 0.986 =
12.21 deg/day.
Now for the interesting bit. First we restore the Earth/Moon system to
normal and recall to mind the angular speed
(wrt the Sun) of the Moon at full moon and at new moon where a difference
of 0.061 deg/day was shown. Splitting this
50/50, we have a shadow advancing West to East at 12.21 + 0.061/2 = 12.241
deg/day at full moon and 12.21 - 0.061/2 =
12.180deg/day at new moon.
Should the Universe however be centred on the Earth with the Moon and the
Sun orbiting it, the Moon's radial speed
will be constant and so the rate at which the shadow advances will be
constant.
A real test would of course need to take into account the fact that both
orbits in question are in fact ellipses,
that they are not in the same plane and that the orientation of the Luna
orbit major axis remains fixed while its
angle to the Sun is constantly varying. I'm sure there will be other things
which have not occurred to me but I am
also sure that -- if I have the mechanics properly sorted -- this effect is
eminently measurable. That we cannot
immediately rush out and do the experiment matters not -- science is in the
habit of making predictions which
routinely take decades or centuries to demonstrate or destroy.
Finally, the Earth/Moon barycentre is not at the Earth's centre of gravity
-- there is an offset of about 4700 km. While the effect is greatly reduced, it
seems to me that the rate of shadow advance could, under these conditions, also
be shown to differ slightly between new moon and full moon on the Earth.
Paul D
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