Me in red. Marc V. Philip M wrote: ... Most of the Jesuits followed the astronomical hypothesis of Tycho de Brahe, a contemporary of Galileo. According to my knowledge, the Jesuits had a slightly different system: Mercury, Venus (and perhaps Mars) were revolving around the Sun while the rest of the planets were revolving around the Earth. I believe the stars were also revolving around the Earth. ----- Original Message ----- From: philip madsen Sent: 24 juin 2007 21:13 To: geocentrism list Subject: [geocentrism] The Word of God! I was tempted to make the subject line, 'Is the universe a cube then' I have a wealth of saved articles amongst my files. so much that there is much I have not yet myself read. Thus when I come across a few quotations worth sharing , please forgive my placing these two here. The first is an interesting historical document. These are relatively small files and can be emailed to any request. Athanasius Kircher, S.J. 1602-1680 Jesuit Scientist and Historian A study by John W. DeTar Opening statement. I first became interested in the life of Athanasius Kircher, S.J. when I was researching the topic of science and the Jesuits. From shortly after the time of their formation in 1540 until their suppression in 1773, the Jesuits had the greatest scientists in the world. The art of science was exploding with new discoveries in all the various fields. The new discoveries were being used with great frequency against the teachings of the Church. With certain Protestant factions, and continuing with the illuminists, false astronomy was being used as a science to attack the authenticity of the Bible. All Jesuits mastered astronomy so as to be able to disprove with ease the theories of Copernicus and Galileo. According to Pastor, in his Lives of the Popes, the popular acceptance of Galileo didn’t occur until after the suppression of the Jesuits and not until Newton’s theories became the vogue. The Church was in good scientific hands (led by the teachings of the Jesuits) until the time of their suppression. One of the most important Jesuit scientists was Father Athanasius Kircher He had the good fortune of being assigned to the Collegio Romano because he was a language expert. He was proficient in 28 languages and was able to take international correspondence and bring it together in a “world view”. His research and collections became the first museum, later known as the Kircher Museum, housed in the Collegio Romano. Artifacts of it are still available to be seen in various museums throughout Rome. Fr. Kircher had a personality that rivaled Galileo. He was a great presenter of museum shows and demonstrations. He was a great language expert. He was the first to successfully translate the hieroglyphs of Egypt, using his knowledge of the Coptic language and liturgy. He was also the great translator of the obelisks that had remained buried for nearly a thousand years in Rome from the time of the Sack of Rome in the 400’s until his day. Amazingly, Father Kircher discovered that the hieroglyphs of these obelisks referred to a Trinitarian God and acknowledged the “Pre-lapsarian” wisdom handed down from Adam. The obelisks recorded the ancient Egyptian longing to return to that religious wisdom of the contrite Adam, belief in the Trinitarian God and the waiting for the virgin birth of the Messiah. Until Fr. Kircher solved the riddle of the hieroglyphs, more than two thousand years had slipped away. When Caesar Augustus conquered Egypt, even the Egyptians had lost their knowledge of the secret priestly language. The Church embraced these prophetic obelisks. Father Kircher coordinated the installation of the obelisk at St. Peter’s Square, and also the Bernini elephantine obelisk in front of Santa Maria Sopra Minerva Church. He translated the obelisk of the Plaza Navona. The fountain surrounding this obelisk has a plaque dedicated to Father Kircher. The theme of the Bernini fountain is taken from Fr. Kircher's book on the worlds water / weather systems. Some chapter headings: Egypt: Fatherland of Paganism and Hieroglyphs “Universal history” is the method of utilizing first the Bible and then other valid historical sources such as Zoroastrian, Egyptian, Greek, Jewish, Oriental, and other ethnic histories. “Universal history” was a distinct method the Jesuits used for two reasons: (1) to help the Jesuits develop in themselves a sympathy for the Pagan by understanding that we were all potentially in the same plight when Adam and Eve sinned in the Garden of Eden. (2) “Universal history” provides a clear, logical and historical teaching tool to convert the Pagans by explaining how they came to be living where they live, believing as they believe, worshiping as they worship and speaking and writing in their particular language. “Universal history” begins with Adam and Eve. .........etc. .........There were three Hermes. The original Hermes was really Henoch (Enoch). “And Henoch walked with God.” Centuries years before the flood, Henoch built the first pyramids in what is now Egypt His pyramids were monuments dedicated to the pre-lapsarian wisdom. Hermes attempted to memorialize in perpetuity the pre-lapsarian wisdom that Adam handed down. This is no ordinary wisdom, but is that wisdom Adam had received from God by infusion, and also given directly to him by God prior to his sin. Adam taught his children this original revelation. Henoch preached that humans should strive for this wisdom and to the return back to God. “And Henoch walked with God in Cain’s city”. He built the original pre-flood pyramids, and permanently inscribed Adam’s pre-lapsarian wisdom onto them in hopes to lead mankind back to the original wisdom of God. But mankind did not follow. With the destruction of the world by God’s flood, Hermes’ pyramids of truth were lost forever. After the flood Cham’s descendents settled in Egypt. Though Henoch’s pyramids were gone, the foundations remained. On these very same foundations, a son of Cham named Misraim (Egyptus) and his tribe reconstructed new pyramids.  Genesis 5.22 The Role of Astronomy, and How It Helped Convert China Needless to say, Father Kircher was an astronomer and geocentricity expert. The Jesuits were able to show not only scientific proofs of traditional geo-centricity but also the theological tie-in to geo-centricity. For example, by comparing scientific research with Divine Revelation in researching the Ark of the Covenant, the Jesuits found that the Ark’s dimensions represented a fullness of a “four square” kind of universe. The Ark of the Covenant, and later, Moses’ high altar, and finally the inner sanctuary of Solomon’s temple reflected this universal fullness by square shapes (20 cubits high, 20 cubits wide, 20 cubits long). The dimensions of the universe were theologically placed in the designs of the temple.  1 Kings 6:20 : “The interior of the inner sanctuary was twenty cubits long, twenty cubits wide, and twenty cubits high; he overlaid it with pure gold.”............... Most of the Jesuits followed the astronomical hypothesis of Tycho de Brahe, a contemporary of Galileo. Tycho de Brahe was Denmark’s Royal Astronomer. His biblical-conforming theory held that the sun orbits the fixed, immovable earth, and the planets orbited the sun in union with its daily orbit around the earth. If the Jesuits had the advantage of the astronomical discoveries of our day, (with the recent discoveries of more than fifty planets orbiting “nothing” - a black hole?), I believe they would have backed away from Tycho, and continued using the other biblically-conforming Ptolemaic / Aristotelian model with its ellipses and retro-grade motions The visible scenario of these fifty new planets (not in our “solar” system) orbiting “nothing” disproves Newton’s basis for rejecting Ptolemy. Once again, the retrograde motions of our planets can be confirmed in geocentric terms. We could dedicate the rest of this paper to Fr. Kircher’s and the Jesuit’s geocentric defense of Scripture, but that is not the purpose of this paper. We will leave that subject for another paper. . ........ Before leaving this subject, we should recall that the suppression of the Jesuits was prompted by the “rights of man” illuminists and masons. When the Jesuits were suppressed in 1773 the Church lost her first line of defense in the “war of science against the Church”. The crime of their suppression is one of the worst in the world. Within one generation, the new “scientifically” educated youth embarked on wholesale revolution. The Reign of Terror in France, in 1796, was led by the first generation of non-Jesuit educated men. Every monarchy in Europe fell to revolution. Replaced with Republican, anti-Catholic governments, Europe was changed forever. South America and Central America followed suit. By the end of 1850, the Masons had revolutionized every Catholic country in Europe and the America’s. Science was “enthroned” as the state religion. Heliocentricity became “fact”; and the Galileo Award became the highest Masonic award for outstanding “citizenship”. In order to understand the depths of our modern malaise, it is necessary to peel off the layers of fabrication. The early Jesuits knew what they were up against. They knew the truth. Let us learn from them. China: Its Four Conversions, and Its Connection to Egypt Father Kircher’s knowledge of China is most interesting. Did you know that China has had four Catholic conversions? China experienced its first conversion when the apostles St. Thomas, Phillip and Bartholomew introduced the faith to the East. Christianity had continued from the time of the apostles even though it had been infected and suppressed in the 400’s by an influx of Arianism and Nestorianism. The Moslems came to western China in the 600’s. In the 700’s Chinese Catholics had been practicing their faith in secret for over a century. Father Kircher writes about a famous marble tablet discovered in 1625 in the City of Siganfu. It had been buried for many centuries. This monument was carved in 782; it describes China’s history showing that in the year 636 Catholic missionaries from Syria converted China. This Syrian branch of the Church had great success in converting the royal family of the Tam (Tan) dynasty. The Siganfu stone recalls that there were numerous crosses and Catholic churches and shrines throughout China.  Kings: Tai 636 AD, Docao 651 AD, Hiuen Cum Chi Tao 719 AD, Sa Cum or “Ven Min 757 AD, Tai Cum Ven Vu 764 AD, Kien Cium Xim Ven Vu 781 AD, Fuen Yam, and Kings – Cao Cum, Ni Uen Cum, So Cum, Tai Cum Fu, and Kien Cum Page 12 from The Scientific Illusion Solange Strong Hertz (conclusion) "......It is because heliocentrism destroyed the credibility of Holy Scripture that the biblical accounts of the world’s origins and future destiny are now rejected even by Catholic churchmen as fanciful stories invented by semi-evolved peoples, whereas the fantasies concocted by modem scientists are received as indisputable tenets to be universally believed until they are discarded or superseded. Small matter that evolution remains as unproven as the heliocentrism which ushered it in and flies directly in the face of God’s revelation that matter has no power whatever to produce anything of itself. As our Lord said, “It is the spirit that gives life; the flesh profits nothing” (John 6:64). The faith furthermore teaches that God created the world and every living creature out of nothing “according to their kinds” (Gen.1:25) in the beginning, and not by a long process. Far from expanding to limitless new horizons and producing ever new species, we in fact have God’s word for it that heaven and earth as we know them “shall pass away” (Matt. 24:35 ), being “reserved for fire unto the day of judgment” (2 Pet. 3:7). In other words, two faiths are now confronting each other, the one held by those who believe in God and the other by those who believe in science, for science in our day has elevated itself to the status of a whole new religion, whose dogmas need not be proved empirically to be believed, but accepted on its word alone. This means that to defeat false science Creationists must be something more than mere scientists. Instead of meekly restricting themselves to the artificial terminology invented by the enemy and abiding by its arbitrary dictates, they must also be apostles of the one true Catholic Faith, boldly using the metaphysical, yet wholly scientific language of this Holy Faith, outside of which there is no salvation for science or anything else. The Word of God must be re-admitted as the incontrovertible, bedrock evidence it really is, in the natural as well as the supernatural order. And why not? God’s Word is truth itself, the only actuality of which we can be absolutely certain in this world. It outweighs all natural evidence and supersedes all natural reasoning. Lying above and beyond every experimental datum, it automatically invalidates whatever contradicts it. Reassuring as it may be to discover physical evidence to support revelation, in the final analysis true faith demands that what God has revealed must be believed on His word alone, which can never deceive, even if all supporting evidence were lacking or contrary." As St. Basil said, “Let us prefer the simplicity of faith to the demonstrations of reason.” After all, like material creation itself, the end of natural science does not lie in this world. Borne aloft by the gift of Knowledge conferred by the Holy Ghost, scientists must look to the Transfiguration of all things in Christ-God if they are really to explain anything. That is the only direction in which the universe can be expanding from the here and now into limitless eternity, and it’s their duty to provide the tangible evidence for what is actually going on! Philip.