[geocentrism] Re: Invitation
- From: Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 17:27:36 +0000 (GMT)
Jack L
I respond out of politeness because Philip has already made many more points
than I would have, and I suspect, more succinctly.
Paul D
----- Original Message ----
From: Jack Lewis <jack.lewis@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, 8 September, 2007 10:31:45 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Invitation
Dear Paul,
Anyone who believes that something came out of nothing without an un-caused
first cause, and that lifeless chemicals can randomly order themselves into the
highly complex organisms without any intelligent or energetic input must be the
height of irrationality. Everything about life screams of an intelligent
origin. The only argument that can be put against it isn't and argument but a
belief. I believe a creator makes far more sense than without one. Nobody in
their right senses would believe that a computer could evolve itself. Just
because people cannot understand or explain the creator does not make its
existence unlikely or invalid. If it makes you feel better don't call it God
call it - a creative intelligence or something like that, but please don't
insult our intelligence, by saying that it all happened randomly and
undirected. It just isn't possible. No scientist, with all of modern technology
at their disposal, has ever been able to duplicate
life in the way that they would like to.
You ought to read up on Dawkins 'Methinks it is like a weasle' and his
'biomorphs' arguments for achieving order out of randomness. Its so pathetic as
to be embarrassing because he couldn't see the obvious flaw in his logic.
Jack
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Deema
To: Geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 1:57 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Invitation
Philip M
Once again you delight me. Very nicely reasoned. I am especially sympathetic
here.
From philip madsen Fri Sep 7 23:00:08 2007
I look forward to his response but don't hold your breath. He know s he will
get creamed! He has no time for people who say 'God did it' but has plenty of
time for those who say 'first there was nothing then it exploded and then
against all the odds out came life miraculously' Jack..
But Jack from outside the discussion, and allowing for no bias either way, I
can see that both points of view, are equally frustrating. But the rationalist
has the greater case. To a person who sees GOD as nothing, and we cannot
substantiate Him as being anything but "spirit", which to a physicist is
"nothing", then his, the rationalists, view of the universe as being
unexplainable by anything other than some strange and complex mechanism has to
be more realistic and more rational than it being designed and made out of
nothing by a fairy, even a super duper omnipotent fairy.
Philosophcally, having no bias, I can see, "God created it." and "'first there
was nothing then it exploded and then against all the odds out came life "
as equal value statements... But as a physicist, I see it as imcompatible
opposites.
However, without having ever read Dawkins, I can bet you are oversimplifying
the evolutionist position as regards the big bang. The universe did not come
out of nothing. It was/is/will be always there in some form, which in physics
could be some form of energy cycling process. This is a quite rational view. At
least it has to a rationalist , more substance than our resorting to a
spiritual Supreme being, based upon no evidence whatsoever, and on faith alone
to explain existence. If you kept throwing God at me in support of creation as
opposed to the rationalist explanation I proposed for existence, I would be
justly excused for being annoyed. You would be and are being un-scientific.
Your correct approach would be to offe a separate discussion on "Is there a
Supreme Intelligence called God." To which Dawkins or any other rationalist has
the right to decline, or if he has the grace to seek, accept.
We cannot rationally mix the two subjects together..
Philip.
Paul D
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