Dear Steven, Thanks on the dynamic Equivalence. That was the gist I had from it. Machs Principle, Im not so certain of.. It seems to justify both systems being true, whilst we know that is not so. Re rotation I am ok on that, as I thought you meant 24 hour orbit of the sun , as well as a 24 hr rotation of the earth.. But I do have difficulty with the need for an annual solar orbit.. I have always seen the seasons rather as resulting from the whole cosmos rocking and oscillating around the earth, annually, thus creating the same illusion which can be percieved from the HC position. In any case I am sticking to the absolute , The earth cannot be moved principle, and that the heavens are moving... we have the prophecy that the heavens shall indeed be moved in quite a spectacular way one day... Philip. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven Jones To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 10:53 PM Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Dynamical Equivalence Dear Philip, Dynamical equivalence of two models concerning the universe is where, although the models behave differently and have different kinematic workings, because they supposedly predict the same observations though, it is not possible to determine which is true due to relativity. Most geocentrists argue that you cannot tell any observable difference between a heliocentric model and a geocentric one, thus they conform to dynamical equivalence which is essentially Mach's principle. As regards the Earth rotating and residing in the centre of the universe, then the sun must orbit the Earth once a year because, the Earth rotates once every twenty three hours and fifty six minutes west to east, which therefore creates the illusion that the stars are going round east to west in the same time. Finally the sun must be accounted for, since the sun goes around in twenty four hours the sun must orbit the Earth once a year, which is why in the heliocentric model the Earth must orbit the sun. This then also explains the seasons and the path of the sun through the ecliptic, which is essentially the path that the sun takes during the course of a year against the background of stars. Kind Regards, Steven Jones. --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!