Re: Regina.Martini@t-online.de it unfair to the buyer and sell you can work out a deal
- From: "Craig P" <jcp1st@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <fptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, <eric@xxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 16:44:02 -0500
Eric, I have no experience with Max, but I certainly agree with you on the
other.
Craig
----- Original Message -----
From: Eric D. Zamir-Zimmerman
To: fptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: [ZossPens] Regina.Martini@xxxxxxxxxxx it unfair to the buyer and
sell you can work out a deal
First of all, I can tell you that Max is 100% honest, and that I cannot say
the same for the other person, based on my own personal experience with both.
Not to mention pleasant vs. unpleasant.
Second, Max would not be the first person to suggest shilling on the part of
that person.
Third, I think that just as it is wrong to jump in and lynch someone based on
partial information, David, it is also wrong to defend.
Regarding the issue of names, I suppose we are used to the relative
transparency of eBay. eBay is too large and clunky to be perfect; however,
there is an element of fairness in the whole thing, even if I, and probably
others, have had the occasional problem.
Regina's "auction" site looks more like a vehicle to sell her own stuff while
controlling the process.
Eric
On 10 May 2006, at 17:08, isaacson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Hi.
My personal interactions with both Max and Regina have been pleasant. I
have not yet played on Regina's auction site, so cannot really comment on the
site function or the philosophical underpinnings ;-)
And, one may certainly choose to play or not to play based on features that
appeal or that don't appeal.
But, my reflex is to disagree with some of Max's points, below...
I think this is very unfair TRADING
I had a bid on a lot that was unsold and ask for the email to contact THE
BIDDER
I was told she will not give out this info
I am unclear why this constitutes unfair trading. To lay this out in very
straight and concrete fashion, why should a bidder expect an auction house to
provide the contact info for a seller after an auction is done? Does
Southeby's (sp?) provide contact info of this sort after an auction is done and
a reserve goes unmet? Seems to me that helping folks perhaps do deals outside
the auction house would not be good for the auction house's prospects.
Again, having not seen the site very much, i would hope a means is
available to send questions during the auction to a seller so that details
about a pen can be clarified before one bids, but even this might not require
contact info, if the auction site manages the contacts both ways.
But, i would think that an auction site which prefers to avoid backchannel
deals might have good reason to FAIRLY prevent after-the-auction dealings, at
least ones facilitated by the auction house itself.
( I DID NOT ASK FOR THE MAILING LIST I JUST ASK FOR THE NAME OF THE
BIDDER) ON MY LOT ONLY
This is a bit of "apples and oranges", if i follow your point. Yes, to give
away a private mailing list is even MORE damaging to an auction house than
would be helping individual bidders and sellers get together outside the
auction itself, but this does not mean it is a good thing to help that contact
happen between even one bidder and seller. That you did not ask for the mailing
list is not relevent.
Again, an auction house has obvious reasons to keep trading within the
between its buyers and sellers within the context of the auction. I don't
understand why one would expect the auction house to help buyers and sellers
reach each other once an auction is done.
What do other think Regina sell here pen
Why do I want to use this Auction Again?
it is one sided she is a pen dealer and we will make here web site
Action better for here to sell to other
Again, i'm a bit uncertain as to the point here.
Regina is a pen dealer. She has (iirc) her own website for pen sales. Yes,
she runs now an auction site, and running that site perhaps helps her overall
business. But, unless you assert that Regina is faking sales on the auction-
pretending her pens are for sale from other people- i would respond that
people... well... have the right to be retailers in one venue and auctioneer in
another. If Regina makes a good auction site- one that is successful and
popular- then she should benefit from improved name recognition. Any of us can
start our own auction house if we believe we can do it well.
if you bid on here pens you do not know if she is bidding again on here
pens so there no way to know if this is fair
This is the first point i've seen in this discussion with which i can
agree- if i follow it correctly and IF you are accurate in the concern.
You believe Regina is shilling- bidding on her own pens posted under
different name?
I suppose that would be concern for ANY auction house run by any person who
sells same type of product that is sold by auction. Regina can address this,
but readers will have to make their own decisions about it.
But, i am not sure how this relates to your opening complaint about emails.
Anyone today can have many many emails and can answer email questions using
many many names.
If Regina sells her own pens on the auction site under bogus name and bids
on them (shilling, etc), besides the issue of fraud (perhaps unprovable) she
still certainly could provide a bogus email and answer you under bogus name,
if someone wanted to write to "the seller" after the auction closed.
Thus, refusal to provide email does not prove anything is bogus and
willingness to provide an "email" does not prove anything is legitimate in the
auction, if one has doubts about the auction in the first place. Thus, your
initial objection that it is unfair for you not to receive the seller's email
really has no bearing on all this.
When we bid on eBay we can see the name of the bidder and the seller and
the bidder can ask Q & A and find out if there some thing wrong with the pen or
ask if it got the nib that matches the pen
Again, i have not looked at the site very much, so no doubt i speak with
some ignorance of the details. I quite agree that a mechanism is needed-
assuming one is not already present- to ask questions about pens before
bidding. I would not bid on most vintage pens if i could not ask questions
before bidding.
But, one does NOT need to have a direct email connection in order to ask
questions. All questions can go through the auction site and all answers can be
routed through the site. And, this issue is quite separate from your original
point, about wanting an email contact regarding a pen that is no longer for
sale because the auction has ended and for which no deal exists to pursue any
longer.
Unfair TRADING WHAT GOT FOR ONE IS GOOD FOR ALL
What is meant by this?
regards
david
Quoting Max Davis <maxpen@xxxxxxxxxx>:
Regina Martini <Regina.Martini@xxxxxxxxxxx>
On line Auction
I think this is very unfair TRADING
I had a bid on a lot that was unsold and ask for the email to contact THE
BIDDER
I was told she will not give out this info
( I DID NOT ASK FOR THE MAILING LIST I JUST ASK FOR THE NAME OF THE
BIDDER) ON MY LOT ONLY
What do other think Regina sell here pen
Why do I want to use this Auction Again?
it is one sided she is a pen dealer and we will make here web site
Action better for here to sell to other
i will not use this auction again
if you bid on here pens you do not know if she is bidding again on here
pens so there no way to know if this is fair
What are your comments on this subject?
When we bid on eBay we can see the name of the bidder and the seller and
the bidder can ask Q & A and find out if there some thing wrong with the pen or
ask if it got the nib that matches the pen
I not going to use this Action I think we all can think about this problem
Unfair TRADING WHAT GOT FOR ONE IS GOOD FOR ALL
Max Davis
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