Re: [foxboro] RE : Barriers to migration to Windows
- From: "Schwarz, Bob" <bob.schwarz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:05:54 -0400
On The InFusion Front for Mesh Windows system:
The New Configurator, InFusion Engineering Environment (IEE) works from
any licensed station to talk to the Configuration Database referred as a
Galaxy Repository (GR). We now have a corporately supported Configurator
for Windows based systems accessible from multiple windows workstations.
Backup of windows stations; this product is becoming a supported
solution without ever shutting down the windows workstation. Restore
does not require the installation of XP and so on. This was demonstrated
to many users at the user group meeting.
InFusion-View vs. Foxview; Sorry to inform you, Foxview is not going
away. InFusion systems can take advantage of the new Configurator, new
InFusion Historian, as well as maintain all of the existing displays in
Foxview. =
Keeping current; all of the Control configurations can be imported into
the new Configurator from savealls taken from the previous Configurators
with very little manual intervention.
Remote connectivity; Users can take advantage of the terminal services
offered in our P91 (Windows Server 2003), once this is set up very
little user workstation setup. From any XP workstation the Remote
Desktop option is under the Communication group. It is much easier to
use that trying to get the Hummingbird Exceed Software setup correctly
with the correct fonts and so on.
-----Original Message-----
From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of MUTI, Jean-Christophe
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 10:43 AM
To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [foxboro] RE : Barriers to migration to Windows
Try to be less disapointed please.=3D20
The system is not so bad and changing for another one is not so easy. I
=3D
know what i am talking about, because i have consulted for it 3 years =3D
ago, and in function of your application it's very difficult to change =3D
and save money.
You wrote : "The new I/A falls in the category of "Not recommended for =3D
new designs
products" : i disagree with that. Actually, i would say that it's better
=3D
for new projects than for upgrade.
You're right : a hole system is not so Cheap.
I don't know where you work, but if you search a little, big DCS working
=3D
with Solaris are not so numerous !. Actually, they all work with =3D
Windozzz or almost all. Invensys was one of the last to keep in life the
=3D
Solaris system. If you compare the price of a Solaris station (licence =3D
included) and a windozz station, you see the difference. Of course you =3D
have to add products like Switches, firewall and so on but it's not the
=3D
bigger problem. And i am not working in Invensys office.
The big problem of invensys solution, is when you want to spread a =3D
quickfix in a lot of stations or a committed configuration. You don't =3D
have the ability to do it once for every one.=3D20
With winXP box, you need to reboot (in off plateform mode ) to do an IA
=3D
install. And after you need to reboot in operator mode. That's very =3D
heavy for a simple act.
Of course you loose a lot of things (remote foxview, self shell scripts
=3D
to re-adapt). And i will not say you win a lot.=3D20
I like IACC functionnalities : it's a central database. When you use it
=3D
with fowdraw, you can send files on each station at the same time. Even
=3D
if you have mix system : Solaris and windows. IACC converts files for =3D
Solaris version.
You don't work directly on the controler too. That's more safe
Some one said a few weeks ago that it would have been clever to develop
=3D
all the application in Java so that it could be operationnal for Solaris
=3D
or Windowz (see Patrick Valentin mails): that was a good idea.
Now talking about backup/restore : Invensys technicians use Ghost each =3D
time they need to have a backup/Restore file before upgrading a station.
=3D
So I suppose they are confident with it !. They even use it for zero =3D
install.
For the rest, i would say that things are going too fast. For examples I
=3D
learned a few weeks ago that IACC (which is 4-5 years old) is already =3D
"obsolet". Man talk about IEEE nowadays. Foxview seems to be at the end
=3D
of is life too. With infusion, we will see Intouch every where i suppose
=3D
?.
I have migrated all the plant to the new MESH network, with XPbox, =3D
switches ... but i still keep my solaris box (AW51) for remote =3D
applications (exceed, rlogin ...). How long ? I don't know.=3D20
best regards,
keep on talking, just say it...
Jean-Christophe MUTI
-----Message d'origine-----
De : foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]De la part de Pablo Lioi
Envoy=3DE9 : Thursday, August 30, 2007 16:02
=3DC0 : foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Objet : [foxboro] RE : Barriers to migration to Windows
To all the UNIX gurus migrating to Micro$oft Windoze,
My first I/A was 6.1 under WinNT. It was the first time I worked with a
=3D
DCS,=3D20
as my previous experience only involved PLCs and SCADAs.
At first I was shocked at the (unnecessary) complexity of the system (by
=3D
the=3D20
way I had no training and had to learn the hard way by myself), and one
=3D
of=3D20
the things I disliked most was the mix between Windoze and Unix=3D20
applications, exceed and the MKS toolkit. Don't get me wrong: I like =3D
Unix,=3D20
Linux in particular, but I also like clean solutions. Windoze apps in=3D20
Windoze, Unix apps in Unix. Documentation didn't help much (I never knew
=3D
if=3D20
a manual like "human interface calls" applied only to Unix or was
also=3D20
valid, at least to some extent, for the NT version).
Anyway, one knew that out there there was THE REAL THING.... THE UNIX=3D20
VERSION, where all the weird things were natural, and I only had the =3D
cheap=3D20
version of THE SYSTEM.
Now Foxboro has decided to kill THE REAL THING, and we are left with the
=3D
latest version of THE CHEAP VERSION, which is not so cheap after all (we
=3D
paid $75000 for a Dell Server that is worth some $15000 for the rest of
=3D
the=3D20
world). I think that the least they should have done was to build the =3D
whole=3D20
thing from scratch and do away with exceed, the emulated shell, ICC, =3D
SYSTEM=3D20
MONITOR, etc. Besides, the performance of the 8.x system is the same
or=3D20
worse as our previous 6.5.1 NT running on Pentium II PC's.
It doesn't surprise me that migrated UNIX users are complaining about =3D
the=3D20
things they have lost. And know what? They aren't going to get any=3D20
solutions.
I've been training two young engineers during the last months. At times
=3D
it=3D20
is almost impossible to explain the way things are done in the I/A. If =3D
you=3D20
can't find a good explanation for something, then it is probably done =3D
the=3D20
wrong way.
If I had to advise somebody I would say:
- The new I/A falls in the category of "Not recommended for new designs"
=3D
products
- If you have a small I/A system, and need to upgrade, consider changing
=3D
to=3D20
another product
- If you have a large I/A system, and need to upgrade, well..... you are
=3D
dead, my friend.
Regards
Pablo Lioi
_________________________________________________________________
Messenger Caf=3DE9 - open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served
=3D
daily.=3D20
Visit now. http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=3D3DTXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline
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Systems (formerly The Foxboro Company). Use the info you obtain here at
your own risks. Read http://www.thecassandraproject.org/disclaimer.html
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