Re: [foxboro] RE : Barriers to migration to Windows

Try to be less disapointed please.=20

The system is not so bad and changing for another one is not so easy. I =
know what i am talking about, because i have consulted for it 3 years =
ago, and in function of your application it's very difficult to change =
and save money.

You wrote : "The new I/A falls in the category of "Not recommended for =
new designs
products" : i disagree with that. Actually, i would say that it's better =
for new projects than for upgrade.

You're right : a hole system is not so Cheap.

I don't know where you work, but if you search a little, big DCS working =
with Solaris are not so numerous !. Actually, they all work with =
Windozzz or almost all. Invensys was one of the last to keep in life the =
Solaris system. If you compare the price of a Solaris station (licence =
included) and a windozz station, you see the difference. Of course you =
have to add products like Switches, firewall and so on but it's not the =
bigger problem. And i am not working in Invensys office.

The big problem of invensys solution, is when you want to spread a =
quickfix in a lot of stations or a committed configuration. You don't =
have the ability to do it once for every one.=20

With winXP box, you need to reboot (in off plateform mode ) to do an IA =
install. And after you need to reboot in operator mode. That's very =
heavy for a simple act.
Of course you loose a lot of things (remote foxview, self shell scripts =
to re-adapt). And i will not say you win a lot.=20
I like IACC functionnalities : it's a central database. When you use it =
with fowdraw, you can send files on each station at the same time. Even =
if you have mix system : Solaris and windows. IACC converts files for =
Solaris version.
You don't work directly on the controler too. That's more safe

Some one said a few weeks ago that it would have been clever to develop =
all the application in Java so that it could be operationnal for Solaris =
or Windowz (see Patrick Valentin mails): that was a good idea.

Now talking about backup/restore : Invensys technicians use Ghost each =
time they need to have a backup/Restore file before upgrading a station. =
So I suppose they are confident with it !. They even use it for zero =
install.

For the rest, i would say that things are going too fast. For examples I =
learned a few weeks ago that IACC (which is 4-5 years old) is already =
"obsolet". Man talk about IEEE nowadays. Foxview seems to be at the end =
of is life too. With infusion, we will see Intouch every where i suppose =
?.

I have migrated all the plant to the new MESH network, with XPbox, =
switches ... but i still keep my solaris box (AW51) for remote =
applications (exceed, rlogin ...). How long ? I don't know.=20

best regards,

keep on talking, just say it...

Jean-Christophe MUTI



-----Message d'origine-----
De : foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]De la part de Pablo Lioi
Envoy=E9 : Thursday, August 30, 2007 16:02
=C0 : foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Objet : [foxboro] RE : Barriers to migration to Windows


To all the UNIX gurus migrating to Micro$oft Windoze,

My first I/A was 6.1 under WinNT. It was the first time I worked with a =
DCS,=20
as my previous experience only involved PLCs and SCADAs.

At first I was shocked at the (unnecessary) complexity of the system (by =
the=20
way I had no training and had to learn the hard way by myself), and one =
of=20
the things I disliked most was the mix between Windoze and Unix=20
applications, exceed and the MKS toolkit. Don't get me wrong: I like =
Unix,=20
Linux in particular, but I also like clean solutions. Windoze apps in=20
Windoze, Unix apps in Unix. Documentation didn't help much (I never knew =
if=20
a manual like "human interface calls" applied only to Unix or was also=20
valid, at least to some extent, for the NT version).

Anyway, one knew that out there there was THE REAL THING.... THE UNIX=20
VERSION, where all the weird things were natural, and I only had the =
cheap=20
version of THE SYSTEM.
Now Foxboro has decided to kill THE REAL THING, and we are left with the =

latest version of THE CHEAP VERSION, which is not so cheap after all (we =

paid $75000 for a Dell Server that is worth some $15000 for the rest of =
the=20
world). I think that the least they should have done was to build the =
whole=20
thing from scratch and do away with exceed, the emulated shell, ICC, =
SYSTEM=20
MONITOR, etc. Besides, the performance of the 8.x system is the same or=20
worse as our previous 6.5.1 NT running on Pentium II PC's.

It doesn't surprise me that migrated UNIX users are complaining about =
the=20
things they have lost. And know what? They aren't going to get any=20
solutions.

I've been training two young engineers during the last months. At times =
it=20
is almost impossible to explain the way things are done in the I/A. If =
you=20
can't find a good explanation for something, then it is probably done =
the=20
wrong way.

If I had to advise somebody I would say:
- The new I/A falls in the category of "Not recommended for new designs" =

products
- If you have a small I/A system, and need to upgrade, consider changing =
to=20
another product
- If you have a large I/A system, and need to upgrade, well..... you are =

dead, my friend.

Regards
Pablo Lioi

_________________________________________________________________
Messenger Caf=E9 - open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served =
daily.=20
Visit now. http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=3DTXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline

=20
=20
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=20
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