Oh, don?t get testy. We are not talking about this specific test, just that one test is only proof of comprehension in one given situation. I?m simply not interested in a test like this for all the reasons I have already given. It has to be presented in a much broader context. ck From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Marnell Sent: Monday, 9 March 2009 4:04 PM To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: atw: Re: Should we always give users what they ask for? Christine, I gave the references. Can I suggest that you read them and critique them yourself. I haven?t the time to do it for you. Geoffrey Marnell Principal Consultant Abelard Consulting Pty Ltd T: +61 3 9596 3456 F: +61 3 9596 3625 W: <http://www.abelard.com.au> www.abelard.com.au _____ From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Christine Kent Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 3:56 PM To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: atw: Re: Should we always give users what they ask for? Is this a valid test? What does it actually test? What kinds of material was communicated? What fonts and font sizes were used in the two media? What kinds of online display were used? Was the text supported with pictures? Was the text laid out to optimise print and screen, or in a different way for each medium? What kind of questions were asked? Without knowing these answers you cannot know what learning situations this test is applicable to. The results may apply to someone learning philosophy but not to a learner who needs to press a button, push in a rod, and pull down the lever, in that order, at the right speed, or die. That person will be mentored. The mentor will press the button at the same time as they say, ?Press in the button?. They will push in the rod and say the words. Then they will pull down the lever and say the words. Next step, they will get the learner to do it for them selves as they say the words for each step. Then they will get the learner to do it for themselves. If there are any nuances like speed or pressure, they will introduce them verbally in hindsight. Somewhere near the machine is a picture showing a man pressing the button, pushing in the rod and pulling down the lever. Not a written word in sight, except maybe some writing under the pictures for good measure, knowing full well that very few people in the environment will ever read them. This is a bit different from the level of comprehension of a student who reads a treatise in ancient Greek and is required to précis it. You still have to define your learner and learning environment before you can test ?comprehension?. Christine From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Marnell Sent: Monday, 9 March 2009 3:41 PM To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: atw: Re: Should we always give users what they ask for? Hi Stuart, The statistic was explained earlier. Two groups of people were given a text to read. One text was in printed form; the other was read online. Both groups were then given a set of questions about the text they had read (the same set of questions). When repeated many times, the results was this: those who read the printed text got more questions right. The difference between the groups was 60%. Cheers Geoffrey Marnell Principal Consultant Abelard Consulting Pty Ltd T: +61 3 9596 3456 F: +61 3 9596 3625 W: <http://www.abelard.com.au> www.abelard.com.au _____ From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Stuart Burnfield Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 3:21 PM To: Austechwriter Subject: atw: Re: Should we always give users what they ask for? Sorry folks, pressed Send by mistake. I was going to finish off by saying: My feeling is that comprehension is a factor (of course), reader preferences are a factor (of course), the environment is a factor, the nature of the text or task is a factor... So "always"? No. "reader preferences carry the day: yes or no?" Maybe? Sometimes? It depends? My main reservation about this thread is that I don't know how much weight to put on the comprehension studies you cite. "Up to 60%" isn't a statistic I can do anything with. What does it mean? - every subject's comprehension was worse and the worst of the lot was 60% worse - some were worse, some were better, but on average more were worse - results varied depending on the material, and for a particular sort of material the readers' (reader's?) comprehension was 60% worse Stuart