Steve,
You bring up an interesting and, I think, important question: "does God only work in live of those with faith?" I would add to this another question: does God work only or even preferentially for the good of those with faith? But I'm not going to take this bait. I'm going to hang on like a slobbery bulldog to the issue at hand.
I agree that people of faith can rely on God to work in every situation.We can believe that God is working to bring shalom to the world through all sorts of covert means (though I personally think human history casts doubt upon the truth of this proposition). But, my central point concerns the role of faith in the public arena, in the domain of activity where people are working to change the world and trying to create new social structures that better reflect what they believe to be good values. People and communities can be motivated by faith and believe that God is acting through them and others. (King George apparently believes this of himself.) My only contention is that rational dialog (may) provide the only ethical methods of action and the only ethical means by which to generate new social structures, or at least the only non-coercive methods and means. (If reason cannot accomplish task I am willing to concede that there are no methods and means for restructuring society available in this "fallen" world that do not ultimately rely on immoral, or at least somewhat coercive, techniques.)
Nevitt
PS - Is the any difference between "methods" and "means"?
On Jul 23, 2004, at 9:57 AM, Stephen Hochstetler wrote:
Nevitt & Ray,
Interesting discussions for us 'listening' people. From reading the notes...yes I actually have been reading the whole thing...whew, I think there is one piece of the puzzle missing. In all your discussions you assume the conversation is between those with faith trying to convince those without faith to change. What is missing from all this discussion is what part God plays. We have stories in the bible of God stepping in and changing people's lives by having a direct relationship with them. It would expect that if we asked among our community at AMC, we would find experiences where God has stepped into our own lives and made a difference. Does God only work in lives of those with faith? Looking in the bible, we could say that Paul was one example where God intervened before Paul was faithful. My faith does not bring about social change, but my faith tells me that God can bring about social change using people or any other resource, including just changing the hearts of those in power. (Paul, as example again)
For all of us both at AMC and elsewhere, I just pray that we will recognize and acknowledge when we hear the voice of God in our own lives . It certainly does not mean that we become perfect at that time, or that we stop struggling our normal daily struggles, or that we stop using reason in our discussions. I would hope though that in building that one-on-one relation with God gives us a strong foundation to build our lives.
Stephen Hochstetler shochste@xxxxxxxxxx
International Technical Support Organization at IBM
Office - 512-838-6198 (t/l 678) FAX - 512-838-6931
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