[alpaca_fibre] Re: FW: Sire Reference Program
- From: Ian Watt <alpacaconsult@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: alpaca_fibre@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:13:56 -0700
Ted,
Great idea but (isn't there always a but!) I would need to get approval
from ARI to have the samples compared - I wonder whether ARI has that
ability as I suspect some privacy issues may be at issue.
I will chase it up with ARI though.
Cheers,
Ian
On Sunday, Apr 18, 2004, at 21:55 US/Pacific, Theodore Chepolis wrote:
> Ian and Ruthanne,
>
> Here's a thought which in practice may prove unwieldy and costly: what
> if
> DNA testing were combined with the follicle test to ensure the sample
> actually came from the identified stud? As you rightly pointed out,
> Ian,
> this is not a "red under every bed" observation, but a suggestion to
> how the
> process can maintain objectivity.
>
> Take care, TED CHEPOLIS
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ian Watt" <alpacaconsult@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <alpaca_fibre@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 12:25 PM
> Subject: [alpaca_fibre] Re: FW: Sire Reference Program
>
>
>> Ruthanne,
>> Many thanks for your comments - I really appreciate them.
>> I hadn't thought of the possible problems you raise but I do see
>> where=20=
>>
>> someone can make a mountain out of a molehill. I must admit that I
> tend=20=
>>
>> to disregard those who see a "red under every bed" mainly because
> these=20=
>>
>> type of people spend a disproportionate amount of time protecting=20
>> perceptions instead of getting on with a productive and happy life
>> -=20
>> their decision, their consequence. However, I do agree that they
>> tends=20=
>>
>> to be very vocal and quite easily provide a perception of import
>> that=20
>> is not there.
>> I think I can overcome the problem by defining an inspecting=20
>> veterinarian as one not either in the employ of the participating=20
>> breeder or the woner of the animal. I would be most reluctant to
>> draw=20
>> the line any further because, as you point out, there are plenty of=20
>> related business transactions between people that make real
>> distance=20
>> really hard to achieve.
>> I would rely instead, on the professionalism of the veterinarian=20
>> reputation and qualification.
>> The fact of the matter is that the name on the proforma is that of
>> a=20
>> professional veterinarian who has both a qualification and
>> reputation=20
>> to maintain. i trust that this is sufficient reason for those=20
>> veterinarians who even sniff a conflict of interest will recuse=20
>> themselves to maintain the integrity of the assessment.
>> I personally would apply the same perspective to the treatment of=20
>> judges at shows. This practice of isolating the judges before a
>> show,=20
>> during the show and also disallowing people who have dealt with the=20
>> judge in the six months prior to the show exhibits, to me, a lack
>> of=20
>> maturity with both the proponents of this regime and the industry as
>> a=20=
>>
>> whole that does not have enough faith in a person to extend them
>> the=20
>> courtesy of professional attitude and integrity.
>> But that is another matter I guess!
>> I hope this answers your question but if it doesn't and anyone else=20
>> would like to comment, please do.
>> Kind regards,
>> Ian Watt
>>
>> On Sunday, Apr 18, 2004, at 09:29 US/Pacific, Ruthanne McCaslin wrote:
>>
>>> Ian,
>>>
>>> Your proposal sounds very promising. I am interested in=20
>>> participating. I,
>>> too, would like info on the reference lab for doing the biopsies
>>> as=20=
>>
>>> soon as
>>> possible as we are starting to shear now.
>>>
>>> In the matter of transpaency, have you considered that in the US=20
>>> there are
>>> a significant number of alpaca breeders who are also veterinarians?
>>> =20=
>>
>>> This
>>> could produce a percieved or real conflict of interest. Certainly
>>> I=20=
>>
>>> would
>>> not think of doing the veterinary inspection on my own animals,
>>> and=20=
>>
>>> those I
>>> have sold to others, but should I also exclude myself from doing=20
>>> those of
>>> other breeders with whom I do not have a business relationship?
> What=20=
>>
>>> about
>>> the friendships that develope at shows and confernces? Somehow in
> the=20=
>>
>>> small
>>> comunity of the alpaca world, it seems we are all conected. Also =
>> what
>>> about the larger farms who have a veterinarian or two on their staff?
>>>
>>> I think that most veterinarians are very objective and highly ethical
>>> people, but there are perceptions to be addressed and the sour
> grapes=20=
>>
>>> of
>>> someone whose animal failed against someone else whose animal
>>> passed=20=
>>
>>> if,
>>> say, the second breeder was the vet's best client and the first
>>> was=20=
>>
>>> six
>>> months in arrears on his vet bills. Even if the vet was meticulously
>>> impartial and the animal that passes deserved to pass and the
>>> animal=20=
>>
>>> that
>>> failed deserved to fail, that has never yet stopped a determined=20
>>> whiner.
>>> Whiners are a very, very small percentage of the alpaca community,
>>> =20
>>> who by
>>> and large are the nicest folks on earth, but they tend to make=20
>>> themselves
>>> heard over the pleasantries of the majority.
>>>
>>> I am not trying to create problems here, just help you think ahead =
>> and
>>> prevent them. I totally agree that integrity, both real and=20
>>> percieved, is
>>> what creates the value in a program of this nature. I hope to
>>> hear=20
>>> more
>>> soon.
>>>
>>> Wishing you nothing but the best,
>>>
>>> Ruthanne
>>>
>>> Ruthanne McCaslin, DVM
>>> Promised Land Farm Alpacas
>>> Chardon, Ohio
>>> www.blackalpaca.com
>>>
>>>> From: Ian Watt <alpacaconsult@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Reply-To: alpaca_fibre@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> To: alpaca_fibre@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: [alpaca_fibre] Re: FW: Sire Reference Program
>>>> Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 15:06:39 -0700
>>>>
>>>> Wayne,
>>>> I did receive your earlier mail but then I went off to England for a
>>>> couple of weeks!! Great trip travelling the canals of Shropshire and
>>>> Wales in a narrow boat - guaranteed stress buster!
>>>> I am awaiting a note from my Australian lab with all the details and
>>>> will be incorporating them into the final release of the plan. I
>>>> have
>>>> had a good response from a very limited mail out and am confident =
>> that
>>>> it will appeal to those forward thinkers who want to work away
>>>> from=20=
>>
>>>> the
>>>> show circuit. I will let you know the details as soon as I have
>>>> them =
>> -
>>>> hopefully later this week.
>>>> The advance copies of the book have arrived and I am posting your =
>> copy
>>>> on Monday. It looks better than I had hoped which is both exciting =
>> and
>>>> a relief!
>>>> Hope you are well.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Ian
>>>> On Wednesday, Apr 7, 2004, at 05:58 US/Pacific, Sixth Day Farm
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Ian,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm re-sending this as I never got a response about the lab doing =
>> the
>>>>> skin biopsies so I thought perhaps you didn't get the e-mail.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Wishes,
>>>>>
>>>>> Wayne
>>>>>
>>>>> *****************************************************
>>>>> Dr. and Mrs. Wayne C. Jarvis "In the beginning, God
>>>>> created.... "
>>>>> =
>> Genesis
>>>>> 1:1
>>>>>
>>>>> home@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx www.sixthdayfarm.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Everyone talks about genetic improvement, at Sixth Day Farm
>>>>> we're=20
>>>>> DOING
>>>>> IT.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Sixth Day Farm [mailto:home@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:27 PM
>>>>> To: 'alpaca_fibre@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
>>>>> Subject: RE: [alpaca_fibre] Sire Reference Program
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Ian,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am getting ready to do biopsies at our shearing day in May. I
>>>>> have
>>>>> everything I need to take the samples. I was going to send them
>>>>> to=20=
>>
>>>>> the
>>>>> histology lab at OSU for slides to be made and then read them =
>> myself,
>>>>> but would prefer to send them to a lab in the US that already
>>>>> understands reading them for S/P ratio and density. Tell me about =
>> the
>>>>> processing you have available: how and where to send the
>>>>> samples,=20
>>>>> cost,
>>>>> and exactly how and what they will report. Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, The G.A.I.N. will be up and running by June. Any of your
>>>>> list
>>>>> members who want to send in all of this phenotypic data that they =
>> are
>>>>> collecting for the sire reference site can submit the data for
>>>>> their
>>>>> sires, and or their hembras as well, and get computer generated=20
>>>>> reports
>>>>> of EPDs for all of the important traits that they want to select
>>>>> for
>>>>> and
>>>>> make genetic predictions about the offspring for. Any who don't =
>> know
>>>>> about what EPDs are and their value for accelerating genetic gain
>>>>> in
>>>>> their herds can read the chapters on genetics in your upcoming
>>>>> International Alpaca Handbook, or the articles I wrote for Alpacas
>>>>> Magazine in 2002 and 2003, or the article on EPDs on Mike Safley's
>>>>> website excerpted from his book, or they can come to my lectures
> at=20=
>>
>>>>> the
>>>>> AOBA National Conference in Louisville.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wayne
>>>>>
>>>>> P.S. Don't tell me the handbook is really being printed ALREADY!
>>>>>
>>>>> *****************************************************
>>>>> Dr. and Mrs. Wayne C. Jarvis "In the beginning, God
>>>>> created.... "
>>>>> =
>> Genesis
>>>>> 1:1
>>>>>
>>>>> home@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx www.sixthdayfarm.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Everyone talks about genetic improvement, at Sixth Day Farm
>>>>> we're=20
>>>>> DOING
>>>>> IT.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: alpaca_fibre-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> [mailto:alpaca_fibre-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ian Watt
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:03 PM
>>>>> To: alpaca_fibre@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: [alpaca_fibre] Sire Reference Program
>>>>>
>>>>> I am delighted to announce that I have found a laboratory to=20
>>>>> undertake
>>>>> the follicle and density counts for alpacas both here and in=20
>>>>> Australia.
>>>>> I have also secured a website to be called alpacasiresUSA.com which
>>>>> will be the home of the new sire listing I wrote to you all about
>>>>> several months ago.
>>>>> I have extended the original concept to now include some phenotype
>>>>> features that may help disclose the underlying genotype of sires
> of=20=
>>
>>>>> the
>>>>> future. I am awaiting a response from Elizabeth Paul and will, in =
>> all
>>>>> probability, include details of gum, toenail, point and eyelid =
>> colour
>>>>> in the sire disclosure list. I would be very interested if anyone =
>> has
>>>>> any comments about this aspect of the project.
>>>>> I am pasting the new program guidelines into this email for you to
>>>>> peruse and consider. If you have any comments, I would greatly
>>>>> appreciate you airing them on this site so we can all share the
>>>>> thoughts.
>>>>> Incidentally, another 20 odd breeders have joined the list as they
>>>>> attended a workshop in California several weeks ago. New
>>>>> workshops=20=
>>
>>>>> are
>>>>> planned for Maine, Colorado and Virginia later this year.
>>>>> And the International Alpaca Handbook is finally off the presses
> and=20=
>>
>>>>> at
>>>>> the bindery awaiting binding!!
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Ian Watt
>>>>>
>>>>> ALPACA SIRE REFERENCE PROGRAM
>>>>>
>>>>> Preamble
>>>>> Selection of sires is possibly the single most important breeding
>>>>> decision any owner makes in striving for excellence in their alpaca
>>>>> business.
>>>>> The impact of a sire across a herd is more significant than any =
>> other
>>>>> single breeding decision.
>>>>> The American alpaca industry uses more sires across its national =
>> herd
>>>>> than is probably necessary. Supporters of a wide gene pool for the
>>>>> industry would dispute this, but, from a production perspective,
> it=20=
>>
>>>>> is
>>>>> hard to argue an alternative point of view.
>>>>> The lack of a breed standard (for the industry) allows the broadest
>>>>> possible interpretation on what comprises an acceptable=20
>>>>> conformation. A
>>>>> show standard goes beyond what is, or could reasonably be
>>>>> expected=20=
>>
>>>>> of,
>>>>> an animal primarily devoted to fibre production ie the show
>>>>> standard
>>>>> aims at a much higher level of conformation correctness than is=20
>>>>> usually
>>>>> reflected in a fibre production breeding emphasis.
>>>>> Breeders who aim for fibre excellence in their alpacas often lack =
>> the
>>>>> tools with which to make informed and productive genetic
>>>>> selections.
>>>>> Too often males are offered for service that have little or no
>>>>> supportive objective data that provide objectively obtained=20
>>>>> information
>>>>> for the female owner and breeder. This information may not be=20
>>>>> important
>>>>> to many breeders (at the moment) but will become increasingly=20
>>>>> important
>>>>> as the rate of genetic improvement becomes harder and harder to
>>>>> achieve. This is reflected most dramatically when the phenotype
>>>>> differences between animals being considered for joining are not
>>>>> immediately or apparently obvious.
>>>>> Breeders seeking superior fibre characteristics and production
> will=20=
>>
>>>>> be
>>>>> looking for more than show results and perceived quality than is
>>>>> currently the industry standard in the United States.
>>>>> Breeders aiming to sit inside the top 20% or better of the national
>>>>> herd (any national herd) will seek more and more objectively =
>> measured
>>>>> information to aid their individual selection processes.
>>>>> Professionally oriented breeders will adopt a much more challenging
>>>>> approach to the selection of sires and this will also apply to the
>>>>> introduction of new female genetics into the individual herd as =
>> well.
>>>>> This program is designed to not only apply objective assessment
> data=20=
>>
>>>>> to
>>>>> both male and female selection criteria but to also show a way for
>>>>> progressive breeders to position themselves for the future in
> terms=20=
>>
>>>>> of
>>>>> breeding and selling advanced fibre genetics.
>>>>> The following criteria suggestions are aimed at sire selections
> but=20=
>>
>>>>> can
>>>>> apply equally to female selection protocols as well.
>>>>> This program is about placing fibre as a higher priority than
>>>>> conformation by objective measurement and the underpinning of
>>>>> conformation correctness through strict adherence to a standard.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Program
>>>>>
>>>>> Because the influence of any sire is far greater across the
>>>>> national
>>>>> herd than any individual female, it is important that sires be
>>>>> rigorously examined for possible genetic conformational
> weaknesses.=20=
>>
>>>>> It
>>>>> is important that these traits be identified as health and welfare
>>>>> issues rather than cosmetic or environmental differences or
>>>>> effects.
>>>>> There is currently no industry conformation standard in place to
>>>>> measure sires (or females for that matter) against, nor is there
>>>>> any
>>>>> prospect of being one in the foreseeable future.
>>>>> The use of objectively collected and measured fleece data is not=20
>>>>> widely
>>>>> used in the promotion of sires.
>>>>> It is doubtful whether many breeders physically examine sires
>>>>> unless
>>>>> they see them at a show or live close by. Many breeders send
>>>>> females
>>>>> for mating to sight unseen sires and presumably rely upon a show=20
>>>>> result
>>>>> as a tick of conformational approval. This is not necessarily a =
>> sound
>>>>> breeding practice.
>>>>>
>>>>> First requirement.
>>>>> Each sire will be required to pass a physical conformational
>>>>> examination as described on a pro-forma established for such a=20
>>>>> purpose.
>>>>> This examination is identical to that adopted by the Australian=20
>>>>> Alpaca
>>>>> Association (AAA) for registration of males as sires approved for
>>>>> progeny registration into the International Alpaca Register,
>>>>> owned=20=
>>
>>>>> and
>>>>> operated by the AAA. Under the AAA scheme, any male used to sire =
>> cria
>>>>> able to be registered must pass this test before the sire is used
>>>>> to
>>>>> get a female pregnant.
>>>>> Each component of the standard must be passed for the male to be
>>>>> considered satisfactory - there are no trade-offs, an animal
>>>>> must=20
>>>>> pass
>>>>> every requirement.
>>>>> There is no fleece component.
>>>>> The examination must be done by a veterinarian so that potentrial
>>>>> customers can be assured that the certification has been done by an
>>>>> independent and qualified person.
>>>>> Second requirement.
>>>>> Each sire will be required to be fleece tested using the OFDA2000
>>>>> testing technology. A fleece sample from each mid-side will be=20
>>>>> required
>>>>> and the average of the two tests used as the final figure.
>>>>> The sample will be collected by an independent person, divided
>>>>> in=20
>>>>> half
>>>>> with one sample forwarded by the sampler to the program
> coordinator=20=
>>
>>>>> and
>>>>> the other half retained by the owner under seal.
>>>>> The information required by the program will include micron, =
>> standard
>>>>> deviation, coefficient of variation, comfort factor, staple length,
>>>>> colour and average fibre profile.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Third requirement.
>>>>> The fleece will be weighed at shearing by an independent person who
>>>>> will record total fleece weight and saddle. The male will be =
>> required
>>>>> to be shorn from the ears down the neck, the body and legs down
>>>>> to=20=
>>
>>>>> the
>>>>> knee, excluding the tail.
>>>>> The weight will be recorded and affirmed by the owner.
>>>>> The shorn fleece will be raised to a height of eighteen inches
>>>>> from =
>> a
>>>>> table top and dropped. This will be done three times and the
> weight=20=
>>
>>>>> of
>>>>> the fleece recorded. This procedure will remove a considerable
> part=20=
>>
>>>>> of
>>>>> any dust in the fleece.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Fourth requirement.
>>>>> Breeders of coloured alpacas are becoming increasingly aware of the
>>>>> phenotype expression of the genetics underlying what they see in
>>>>> the
>>>>> flesh. There is an increasing sophistication being exhibited by
>>>>> coloured breeders especially since the publication of Elizabeth=20
>>>>> Paul's
>>>>> "The Alpaca Colour Key". In order to meet this demand and to foster
>>>>> itys growth, each male will have any identifying colour spots=20
>>>>> disclosed
>>>>> as well as eye colour, eyelid colour, points colour, toenail
> colour=20=
>>
>>>>> and
>>>>> gum colour. These potential genetic colour identifiers will be
>>>>> important to discerning colour breeders of the future.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Additional option.
>>>>> This option will allow owners of sires to have their sire tested
>>>>> for
>>>>> primary:secondary follicle count as well as a density count. Owners
>>>>> will be provided with a kit comprising all the materials and=20
>>>>> equipment
>>>>> needed to undertake the test and a comprehensive set of
>>>>> instructions
>>>>> which will allow a competent person to do the collection without
>>>>> the
>>>>> need for a veterinarian. It is suggested however that the vet
> could=20=
>>
>>>>> do
>>>>> the biopsy at the time of the physical examination. This is a =
>> one-off
>>>>> procedure and is offered for those breeders who might want to=20
>>>>> identify
>>>>> their top females within the herd.
>>>>>
>>>>> The information derived from the processing of the four
>>>>> requirements
>>>>> will paint a composite picture of any sire using objectively=20
>>>>> collected
>>>>> data. This data can then be used to make some initial assessments
>>>>> of
>>>>> the sire, allow comparisons between sires and lets sires be
> assessed=20=
>>
>>>>> on
>>>>> performance rather than subjective assessment reinforced by emotive
>>>>> promotion.
>>>>> The exercising of the additional option adds a far deeper
> dimension=20=
>>
>>>>> to
>>>>> the selection process and strikes a very new line of breeder=20
>>>>> disclosure
>>>>> to potential customers for sire services. This is very much leading
>>>>> edge genetics.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Access to data
>>>>> The data and documentation of each sire would then be collated and
>>>>> processed into a website listing within a listing of "accredited=20
>>>>> sires"
>>>>> (or some such identifier). This website would be managed and=20
>>>>> maintained
>>>>> by Alpaca Consulting Services of Australia and would be open for=20
>>>>> public
>>>>> access.
>>>>> There would be a fee structure for animals entering the program
> and=20=
>>
>>>>> an
>>>>> annual fee to cover the testing, collating and data processing of =
>> the
>>>>> annual shearing results.
>>>>> Once entered into the site, the animal will remain until, either it
>>>>> dies, the owner decides to withdraw or no new data has been =
>> collected
>>>>> for two seasons.
>>>>> There will be a photograph of the sire on the site.
>>>>> There will be no mention of show results.
>>>>> There will be an option to link any particular sire to the owners
>>>>> website or email address.
>>>>> There will be no service fee or other advertising on the site.
>>>>>
>>>>> Benefits
>>>>> The industry-wide benefit is access to sires demonstrating=20
>>>>> objectively
>>>>> measured fleece and conformation information collected by an
>>>>> independent person. This feature alone will place these sires at
>>>>> the
>>>>> forefront of breeders minds as the collection, testing and=20
>>>>> distribution
>>>>> of the information is not managed by the owner of the sire - a
>>>>> truly
>>>>> vested interest - but by someone with absolutely no interest in any
>>>>> animal.
>>>>> By making the data public both breeders and sire owners have a
>>>>> benchmark against which they can measure any potential sire but
> also=20=
>>
>>>>> a
>>>>> wider range of sires as this program allows any sire, or potential
>>>>> sire, in.
>>>>> Over time, the fleece history of the sire will become clear with=20
>>>>> those
>>>>> sires not blowing out in any measurable traits becoming more=20
>>>>> recognized
>>>>> and thus, potentially, more attractive as future herd sires.
>>>>> Owners of listed sires will no doubt be recognized as leading edge
>>>>> breeders as demonstrated through their strength of conviction in
>>>>> submitting their animals to scrutiny over the internet.
>>>>> Breeders looking for sires will, for the first time perhaps, have a
>>>>> broader range of sires from which to select as small breeders
> unable=20=
>>
>>>>> or
>>>>> unwilling to exhibit at shows will have a vehicle through which
>>>>> they
>>>>> can market and promote their animals at minimal cost and at maximum
>>>>> credibility.
>>>>> Finally, the conformation examination by a veterinarian will, for =
>> the
>>>>> first time, underpin an expanded guarantee of correctness of
>>>>> conformation by a sire owner.
>>>>> These are benefits that will not only enhance the reputation of the
>>>>> animal but also the owner in an industry which will place more
>>>>> and=20=
>>
>>>>> more
>>>>> emphasis on fleece production than is currently the case.
>>>>> In essence, breeders offering sires entered into the program will
>>>>> be
>>>>> attesting that their animals have met a documented conformation
>>>>> standard, have undergone independently collected, tested and =
>> recorded
>>>>> fleece measurements and, if selected, are prepared to disclose
>>>>> secondary to primary follicle ratios to buyers of both animals and
>>>>> service options.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>> List Name: Alpaca Fibre Production
>>>>> ListAddress: alpaca_fibre@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> List Archives: //www.freelists.org/archives/alpaca_fibre/
>>>>> List Administrator: Ian Watt (alpacaconsult@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)
>>>>>
>>>>> How to Unsubscribe: send an email to=20
>>>>> alpaca_fibre-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> and put "unsubscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subject line of =
>> the
>>>>> email.
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>> List Name: Alpaca Fibre Production
>>>>> ListAddress: alpaca_fibre@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> List Archives: //www.freelists.org/archives/alpaca_fibre/
>>>>> List Administrator: Ian Watt (alpacaconsult@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)
>>>>>
>>>>> How to Unsubscribe: send an email to
>>>>> alpaca_fibre-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx and put "unsubscribe" (without =
>> the
>>>>> quotes) in the Subject line of the email.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> List Name: Alpaca Fibre Production
>>>> ListAddress: alpaca_fibre@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> List Archives: //www.freelists.org/archives/alpaca_fibre/
>>>> List Administrator: Ian Watt (alpacaconsult@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)
>>>>
>>>> How to Unsubscribe: send an email to=20
>>>> alpaca_fibre-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx and
>>>> put "unsubscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subject line of the=20
>>>> email.
>>>
>>>
>>> Ruthanne McCaslin, DVM
>>>
>>> Promised Land Farm
>>> 11345 Thwing Rd.
>>> Chardon, Ohio 44024
>>> 440-285-9255
>>> Peruvian Perfection in Black and White - and other exciting colors!
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Get rid of annoying pop-up ads with the new MSN Toolbar =96 FREE!
>>> http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/
>>>
>>> ---
>>> List Name: Alpaca Fibre Production
>>> ListAddress: alpaca_fibre@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> List Archives: //www.freelists.org/archives/alpaca_fibre/
>>> List Administrator: Ian Watt (alpacaconsult@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)
>>>
>>> How to Unsubscribe: send an email to=20
>>> alpaca_fibre-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx and put "unsubscribe" (without
> the=20=
>>
>>> quotes) in the Subject line of the email.
>>>
>>
>> ---
>> List Name: Alpaca Fibre Production
>> ListAddress: alpaca_fibre@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> List Archives: //www.freelists.org/archives/alpaca_fibre/
>> List Administrator: Ian Watt (alpacaconsult@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)
>>
>> How to Unsubscribe: send an email to
>> alpaca_fibre-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> and put "unsubscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subject line of the
> email.
>>
>
>
> ---
> List Name: Alpaca Fibre Production
> ListAddress: alpaca_fibre@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> List Archives: //www.freelists.org/archives/alpaca_fibre/
> List Administrator: Ian Watt (alpacaconsult@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)
>
> How to Unsubscribe: send an email to
> alpaca_fibre-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx and put "unsubscribe" (without the
> quotes) in the Subject line of the email.
>
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