[access-uk] Re: Freedom Scientific suit against GW Micro
- From: "Kevin Lloyd" <kevin.lloyd3@xxxxxxx>
- To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 14:17:49 +0100
I don't really think that innovation means implementing the same feature that a
rival has already implemented in their product. I don't know who will come out
of this law suit as the victor but it does seem to me that this could be good
for GW Micro as it will be the kick up the backside they need to do something
truly innovative not just take a rivals ideas and make them perhaps a little
more stable and maybe a little more user friendly because they've afforded
themselves the time and money to do so by not having to have done the research
and development in the first place that comes with true innovation.
There was a big fuss on this list a couple of years ago about Window-eyes and I
have to admit that I listened to all the seminars from site village that year
as I thought I'd be missing out by not moving over to WE. The major features
that year, 2006, were great support for excel, outlook calendar and a training
feature where you could press keys and be told what they do. Come on guys, if
I hadn't already got this with JAWS 5or 6 years ago I'd have been out of a job.
Seems that WE is always 2 steps behind JAWS and it's time they addressed this
and lodged some patents themselves.
It's not stifling the opposition, it's called competition and it fuels
enterprising individuals to deliver cutting edge products and technologies.
Kevin
E-mail: kevin.lloyd3@xxxxxxx
----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Hodgson
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 11:59 AM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Freedom Scientific suit against GW Micro
Hi,
FS are on new ground this time as they are dealing with software patents:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_patent_debate
This is quite an interesting article, and there are lots of issues and places
in the world where these don't actually have any legal standing currently -
though the US is not one.
I am disappointed with FS only in that by doing this they are trying to
cripple the competition in my opinion, and I believe that competition in the AT
industry is one of the things which makes things progress - if FS or GW Micro
had the monopoly on the market, I don't believe that there would be as many new
features or enhancements - I deal with banking products at work which haven't
changed in years, simply because everyone is using the one specific product,
and there is no innovation there to move things on.
Andrew.
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Brian Hartgen
Sent: 09 August 2008 20:45
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Freedom Scientific suit against GW Micro
Just to clarify that a bit further, if I had patented something or put a lot
of work into a product or feature, I would hate the thought that someone would
come along and steal it. Whether that person or group of people had in fact
carried out the work better than I had or in a different way to my mind is
irrelevant. I would have paid for the privilege of patenting and protecting
that item and so I would not want anyone to copy it.
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Hartgen
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 8:35 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Freedom Scientific suit against GW Micro
Kevin, thank goodness someone is now talking some sense!
I thought I was on my own feeling this way but obviously not.
----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin Lloyd
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 8:23 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Freedom Scientific suit against GW Micro
Ray, if someone has patented bullshit then I'm afraid you may find
yourself
as the subject of a suit case after this mail.
You're absolutely right that Arthur C Clarke could have made a fortune by
suing those who stole his ideas but the fact is that he spent his time
writing fiction and not patenting ideas.
It is true that it's not a dignified way of going about your business to
sue
your competitors and somehow there's a view on this list that we're
talking
about a pair of charities here. We're not. These are companies who are
both making a lot of profit from selling products to a confined market.
There will always be screen reader camps supporting their own particular
product's vendor and some strange kind of misplaced loyalty. I'd suggest
you should put this aside and look at the facts. Freedom Scientific were
the company that introduced place markers and scripting. If they have
patented the place marker idea and any other company infringes that
patent,
they have every right to feel agrieved and sue. Copyright and patent
laws
are there to protect the companies that put in funding to research and
develop ideas and technologies and prevent them being ripped off by other
companies that come along and take those ideas at a fraction of the price.
I think GW Micro can think themselves lucky that FS didn't patent other
ideas such as the keyboard training functionality that Window-eyes
brought
in with version 6 that JAWS had in version 3.2 back in 1999 or earlier
and
I'm sure there are a few other examples.
Regards.
Kevin
E-mail: kevin.lloyd3@xxxxxxx
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rays Home" <rays-home@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 4:32 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Freedom Scientific suit against GW Micro
> Yes, OK colin the place markers scam and legal try on!
>
> I've commented in passing on this one, but all that could possibly be
said
> has been said on the GW list and there blogg.
>
> My view - and I'm a Window-Eyes user - is that if this sort of thing is
> upheld by the US courts, and it's going to a jury hearing - the law is
> indeed an Ass! those who reckon to be well informed assert you can sue
in
> essence for pinching an idea - which I don't believe GW was
intentionally
> or otherwise doing. Just think how much money Arthur C Clarke (could)
> have made from the idea of geo-stationary satilites, which he thought
of
> 20 years before one was actually put up.
>
> I say it is one thing to have an idea, quite another to make it work
> propperly. GW, on the surface, is being sued for doing it like it
should
> have been done from the start, i.e. propperly!
>
> Not that I'm convinced that's wy FS is sueing. The truth is more
likely
> they cannot stomach a superior scripting model which epens up a more
> powerful scripting capability allied to a much more open method and
> co-ordination via SCript Central for the wider production of scripts
which
> should no longer be restricted to a tight cotarie or priesthood of
those
> working with a proprietory scripting language.
>
> This is just one ingrediant in the formula for keeping the price of JFW
> and its gravy train milking more than is tryuly justified from the sale
> and support of a product that has a bit less going for it than is
> popularly believed.
>
> Well, that's my 2p - or 4 cents worth! (Note I didn't do the mark up
in
> the other direction, (smile).
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Colin Howard" <colin@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [access-uk] Freedom Scientific suit against GW Micro
>
>
>> Greetings,
>>
>> From: Sun Sounds of Arizona <bill.pasco@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 09:19:01 -0700
>>
>> Much of what you say is true, however, I have to take issue with two
>> points.
>>
>> 1. You are correct that if it goes on long enough, the courts will
>> eventually decide on the merits. However, this type of law suit is
>> rarely
>> intended to go to conclusion by the plaintiff. It is designed to
>> intimidate. The defendant must defend themselves legally which is
>> expensive
>> even if they are totally innocent. Many out matched companies will
just
>> fold their tent and back down rather than stay the course in court.
This
>> is
>> how they stay in business, but they have to give up the point, and then
>> spend money to redo the method or technology which got them in hot
water.
>> And this with no legal ruling on the merits. Just as with Serotek,
it's
>> bullying plain and simple.
>>
>> 2. You said that, if asked by the company lawyers, we should refrain
to
>> comment. I have a big problem with that thinking. Sure, the
principles,
>> FS
>> and GW have to refrain, however, we as free citizens have every right
to
>> say
>> what we think or believe. WE have the right as consumers to either
>> support
>> GW Micro, or bitch to Freedom Scientific. WE have the right to
boycott,
>> write letters to the editor or what ever we want, and nothing, as the
>> bill
>> of rights says, should be done to abridge this basic right. WE may
>> choose
>> as individuals to be silent for fear, or because we really don't know,
or
>> we
>> may be very vocal, even if we are mistaken. WE may help, we may hurt,
>> there
>> are far more examples of free citizens moving things in a positive
>> direction
>> through being outspoken then there are of silence leading to a
desirable
>> outcome. As you say, what these two private companies do effects a
great
>> number of us, and we do have a right to weigh in.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>> VICUG-L is the Visually Impaired Computer User Group List.
>> Archived on the World Wide Web at
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>>
>
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