[wisb] Re: Immature vs. juvenile (no WI sightings)
- From: Seth Cutright <ferruginous.hawk82@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: ryanbrady10@xxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 13:03:38 -0400
I don't know too much about molt and timing, but it seems that most
raptors take a few years to get full adult plumage. So another term
that could be used, and maybe this is too general would be sub adult.
That would at least be more then one year old and less then full
adult, at least how I tend to think about that term, and use.
-Seth Cutright
Mexico, NY
Derby Hill
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 10:53 AM, Ryan Brady <ryanbrady10@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Molt terminology has advanced quite a bit in the past couple years and I
> honestly haven't been keeping up on it but in a somewhat simplistic sense I
> think the following is reasonably accurate...."juvenile" relates to a bird's
> first plumage and "immature" relates to all plumages attained thereafter
> until adulthood is achieved. For example, in many raptors young leave the
> nest in juvenile plumage and do not molt until the following spring/summer
> and hence they are technically juveniles for up to a year, sometimes even
> breeding while still in juvenile plumage. They are no longer juveniles after
> their first molt at nearly a year of age and are immatures until the
> definitive "adult" plumage is achieved. In other birds, especially
> songbirds, the juvenile plumage may be held for a very short period of time,
> days or weeks even, and is quickly replaced by an immature plumage. Hence
> these individuals, such as most young warblers seen during fall migration,
> are technically immatures
> and not juveniles. In the case of Mike's Gray Jays, these sooty young birds
> are "juveniles" because this is the plumage they acquired while in the nest.
> They will begin their first molt in mid-late summer of this year and finish
> it sometime in fall, thereafter appearing very similar to the adults and
> skipping any "immature" appearance.
>
> Dig into the molt literature and you'll find it's more complex than this
> but...
>
>
> Ryan Brady
> Washburn, Bayfield County, WI
> http://www.pbase.com/rbrady
>
>
>
>
>> From: little_blue_birdie@xxxxxxx
>> To: mikeduchek@xxxxxxxxxxx; wisbirdn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [wisb] Re: Immature vs. juvenile (no WI sightings)
>> Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 22:22:52 -0500
>>
>> Mike and all,
>> Juvenile is actually the technically correct term to use. Juvenile refers to
>> a specific stage in development. My understanding is that Juvenile usually
>> refers to a first year or fledgling bird.
>>
>> Immature refers to any stage of development younger than Adult.
>>
>>
>>
>> Happy Birding! --Chris W, Richland County
>> http://swallowtailedkite.blogspot.com/
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/swallowtailphoto
>>
>> "The beauty and genius of a work of art may be reconceived, though its first
>> material expression be destroyed; a vanished harmony may yet again inspire
>> the composer; but when the last individual of a race of living things
>> breathes no more, another heaven and another earth must pass before such a
>> one can be again."
>>
>> (From William Beebe's "The Bird: Its Form and Function," 1906)
>>
>>
>>
>>> From: mikeduchek@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>> To: wisbirdn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [wisb] Immature vs. juvenile (no WI sightings)
>>> Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 22:06:53 -0500
>>>
>>> Just a quick question: what is the difference between a juvenile bird vs.
>>> an immature, for eBird reporting purposes and otherwise? I have seen young
>>> great horned owls here in our woods in Waukesha and was wondering if these
>>> should be considered juveniles or immatures? So when does an immature bird
>>> become a juvenile (or vice versa, if I have it reversed)?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I also spent this weekend on Lake Kabetogama at Voyageurs National Park in
>>> far NE Minnesota. I wasn't willing/able to drag my companions into too much
>>> hiking/birding, but did manage to hike a couple of the trails. On the Echo
>>> Bay Trail just down the road from where we stayed I was treated to several
>>> gray jays, including at least 2 immature/juvenile birds. Neat to see, as
>>> the immatures/juveniles are entirely black, besides being quite vocal. I
>>> also find gray jays (and Steller's jays) to be a lot more approachable
>>> than, say blue jays. Always neat to see these big birds so up close.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Was also neat to see a stuffed great gray owl and boreal owl at the
>>> visitors center, both of which I have yet to see in real life.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks a lot,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Mike Duchek, Waukesha, Waukesha Co.
>>>
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>>
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