No, I didn't see this. I am going back to the customer to test some heavy duty apps. They have one app that is over a gig in size so I will try to get some benchmarks. The testing I did was on a WD client running on XP Pro. Also, the version is 3.0.0.428. I wonder if Ron was running 428 or the previous version of 420? Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Greenberg" <steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 11:46 AM Subject: [THIN] Re: VMWare ESX ans Softricity SoftGrid Jim, Did you experience any of the delay that Ron described after the app is loaded? Steve Greenberg Thin Client Computing 34522 N. Scottsdale Rd. suite D8453 Scottsdale, AZ 85262 (602) 432-8649 (602) 296-0411 fax steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jim Kerr Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 9:33 AM To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: VMWare ESX ans Softricity SoftGrid Ron, I installed SoftGrid at a customer last week who is running VMWare ESX. I expected to have some issues and was impressed to find that everything worked like a champ. Cool stuff... Jim Kerr Senior Systems Engineer - Softricity, Inc. Office: 770-932-7002 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Oglesby" <roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 9:51 AM Subject: [THIN] Re: VMWare ESX Ahh so we are on the same page. Cool. AS for softgrid on VM (two pieces of new technology at once). We have it in a lab but that is all. MF FR3, on 2k3, running the Softgrid client in VM, hell even the softgrid server is a vm. My partner has it at his house right now! On a dual with 3 gb of ram. Seems OK, we are trying to work out where some pauses in the system come from now. Ron Oglesby Senior Technical Architect RapidApp Office 312.372.7188 Mobile 815.325.7618 email roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- From: Steve Greenberg [mailto:steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 8:41 AM To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: VMWare ESX Ron, That is a very worthwhile clarification- I did not mean to suggest that one should take a resource constrained farm of physical servers and virtualize them. It is much more about consolidating under utilized servers and/or separating application/OS conflict issues. Also, as you point out, if DR is the first priority then you might choose to virtualize. BTW- Do you have experience/feedback running the Softricity SoftGrid client on a Metaframe VM? Any "gotchas" there? Steve Greenberg Thin Client Computing 34522 N. Scottsdale Rd. suite D8453 Scottsdale, AZ 85262 (602) 432-8649 (602) 296-0411 fax steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ron Oglesby Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 7:35 AM To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: VMWare ESX Steve. Gotta hit this one: >What the published studies actually show is that you end up with less users >per Virtual Machine then on the same physical hardware, however, you can >run >more VM's than physical instances of the OS and as a result you actually >end >up with around 20% more total users on the same hardware! I am not standing up for the published study thing BUT being with the largest single location VMware partner I gotta talk about VM and Citrix a little. It has pros and cons and myself and another of our consultants here have run some simulations and cost benifts and worry about the "perceived savings" with Citrix and VM. We spec it for CSGs WI, ZDCs, under utilized silos etc. BUT VMWARE shines when hardware is underutilized. If your silo runs at 90% all the time (lets say processor) then taking two duals and collapsing them onto a quad after the purchase of a VMware ESX lic and their SMP lic module the cost is to high to justify unless the primary goal is portability of the DSK files. Now this is not to say that if you are hitting OS limits within a citrix farm and not hardware limits (such as running out of paged pool kernel mem, registry space etc) that using VMWare to partition the hardware will get you more users/sessions per physical box. This is the truth. BUT if your servers are truly physical resource constrained then we have found it better to focus VMware in the lower utilized one off silos and still have the ability to port primary silos to VMWare if needed (use a PTV to get the images before hand and just store them) Just my 2 cents. Ron Oglesby Senior Technical Architect RapidApp Office 312.372.7188 Mobile 815.325.7618 email roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- From: Steve Greenberg [mailto:steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 8:14 PM To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: VMWare ESX >>...The reason that I think we have not seen this is that people perceive that the overhead of VMware means that you end up with fewer concurrent users on two VM's on a quad, then you would with two separate dual CPU servers. What the published studies actually show is that you end up with less users per Virtual Machine then on the same physical hardware, however, you can run more VM's than physical instances of the OS and as a result you actually end up with around 20% more total users on the same hardware! Steve Greenberg Thin Client Computing 34522 N. 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