I agree. Also, there does not seem to be anyone that wants to take the lead,
so it will die of its own accord.
Steve Ainsworth
From: tccrockets-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tccrockets-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Eric Renger
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 11:33 AM
To: tccrockets@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tccrockets] Re: Lincoln AirFest Airshow - rocket demonstration launch
- Saturday June 11 - NOTE: LDRS Weekend
Maybe something more in the model rocket category would simplify things a bit.
You could fly a few 4” diameter models on G motors to less than 1,000 feet —
something like a G-Force, Mega Der Red Max, or Minnie Magg. I know that
wouldn’t actually feel like TCC showing off it’s best, but it might avoid the
complications of an HPR flight, and it would allow the audience to see the
whole flight from launch to recovery. I’ll actually be out of the country at
the time missing LDRS. Boo! So I also won’t be involved with the demo launch.
But I thought i would toss this idea out for consideration.
Eric
On Jan 20, 2016, at 11:14 AM, (Redacted sender "moparmbc" for DMARC)
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Hi everyone:
For what it's worth it sounds as though the rocket demo at San Carolos was only
a small model rocket(s). I don't know what they did at the Rocky Mountain show
or what kind of space they had or how many people showed up. But the IACS
guidelines are probably there because, as we all know, a large, high-power
rocket has absolutely no control over landing. So even if there is a great
flight and a perfect recovery, there is no way to know where it is going to
land. At a large airshow with tens of thousands of spectators, display
aircraft, and other obstructions, there is going to be a higher risk of hitting
something (or someone) on landing. As we know, even under chute a high-power
rocket can do significant damage to anything it strikes on landing. So before
anyone agrees to launch a rocket in a big airshow, you should keep in mind
that no amount of insurance is going to prevent you from being a defendant in a
lawsuit if you hit something, or more importantly, someone. That's one of the
reasons why our launches are held in the middle of nowhere. I applaud Steve
for bringing to our attention this chance for us to show off our expertise, and
if it works the crowd would love it. But maybe a nice static display would be
another way to do it.
Of course, I am a lawyer and probably too paranoid. So take this advice for
what it's worth.
Have a good day.
Mark C.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Ainsworth <SAinsworth@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:SAinsworth@xxxxxxxxxx>>
To: 'tccrockets@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:tccrockets@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>'
<tccrockets@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:tccrockets@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
Sent: Tue, Jan 19, 2016 10:02 am
Subject: [tccrockets] Re: Lincoln AirFest Airshow - rocket demonstration launch
- Saturday June 11 - NOTE: LDRS Weekend
If there is anyone that would like to take the lead for the demonstration
launch, please let me know. I will provide email addresses for all involved at
the City of Lincoln for the Airshow.
Richard and Gale will need to talk with the lead flyer, to see what is needed
and what the “Air Boss” can provide.
Here’s what I have from the airshow coordinator (Richard Pearl) so far (Gale is
the “Air Boss” for the airshow). See below:
Steve Ainsworth
I like the rocket idea. We just need to work out the details to see if it is
feasible.
Jennifer Hanson
Public Services Director
City of Lincoln
600 Sixth Street
Lincoln, CA 95648
(916) 434-3248
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve
Excellent. I think before we proceed too much further we need an idea of what’s
involved in a rocket demonstration. Perhaps the rocketry lead could send this
group something outlining the launch/recovery plan.
The city has its own basic policy for the Airport and will be getting the
standard one-day air event insurance. We would certainly need the
rocket-specific coverage if this comes together.
Yes re the contact with our Air boss - Gale Rawitzer. Perhaps in one of the 150
air shows Gale has managed he might has some experience with the world of
rocketry. He’s cc’d on this.
Richard
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard,
I do not have much experience with rockets at air shows. ICAS (International
Council of Air Shows) does not recommend rocket launches at air shows. You can
find that statement in their RC Model Guidelines. Having said that I believe
there was a rocket launch at the Rocky Mountain Air Show last year. I think?
I have some experience from the Biggest Little Air Show (RC Show) held at San
Carlos Airport in May. They shot off five rockets as part of the opening
ceremony. They only traveled approx. 100' into the air.
Gale
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve
Excellent. I think before we proceed too much further we need an idea of what’s
involved in a rocket demonstration. Perhaps Rob could send this group something
outlining the launch/recovery plan.
The city has its own basic policy for the Airport and will be getting the
standard one-day air event insurance. We would certainly need the
rocket-specific coverage if this comes together.
Yes re the contact with our Air boss - Gale Rawitzer. Perhaps in one of the 150
air shows Gale has managed he might has some experience with the world of
rocketry. He’s cc’d on this.
Richard
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The number one mantra is safety first. Certainly even a static display would be
worthwhile.
Apparently the Rocky Mountain Air Show (a large event including the AF/Navy
flight teams) did do it:
From the 2015 Rocky Mountain Airshow website - newspaper write-up: "A
high-powered sport rocket will launch into the night sky that evening — a first
for the Broomfield airshow. In the past, organizers have held the event at
twilight, but a recent night launch in Aurora proved to be eye-candy for the
crowd, Cimiluca said.
"We'll be sending up a 20-foot-tall United Launch Alliance rocket about a mile
high. It's spectacular," he said.
The rocket launch is sanctioned by the Federal Aviation Administration and
operated by United Launch Alliance. ULA's interns built the Stars 'N' Stripes
rocket, one of the largest rockets to launch in Colorado, Cimiluca said.”
From the 2013 Rocky Mountain writeup : "The Rocky Mountain Airshow is excited
to announce that they are going to be the first show that will have a Large
Sport Rocket. United Launch Alliance has worked in conjunction with the FAA
(Federal Aviation Administration) to establish guidelines for the
never-before-seen demonstrations at airshows and we are the first to launch a
rocket in front of fans."
From: tccrockets-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:tccrockets-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:tccrockets-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:tccrockets-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?>]
On Behalf Of James Dougherty
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 8:12 PM
To: TCC chat
Subject: [tccrockets] Re: Lincoln AirFest Airshow - rocket demonstration launch
- Saturday June 11
Vito, I have your raffle prize from October Skies. The thing is just beautiful,
I look at it all the time and I don't mind hanging onto it. But, it is yours -
you need to send Richard the check and let me know when we can meet because I
will have to (sniff, sniff) give it back to you :-)
On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 8:10 PM, James Dougherty
<jafrado@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:jafrado@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Damn, the date is wrong - that is LDRS weekend at ROC!!!!
Nope, I'll be going to LDRS... would do it in a heartbeat otherwise.
Re: Lincoln
The issue with the Lincoln Airshow is the Waiver, it's complicated. Think about
it, if you're flying HPR
during the Airshow you would need to put a TFR in effect for the Area and that
is requiring coordinating with Lincoln ARTCC and the LCO, doable but needs to
be carefully planned. Steve and I are looking into it, it's just not 100% (yet).
Re: LDRS
Vito, I'm looking for you at Lucerne with that 10' and an N2000 ... :-)
For me, MIM-104 may go with an N5800 if ROC gets approval from CFM (they did
last time). We flew the AMW Skid instead for Paul's memorial and Jack G and I
did an N10K Drag race with both our Patriots last time.
I'll ping Rick again about N flights at Lucerne for LDRS and whether they will
get it approved.
On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 6:55 PM, Vito Orlandella
<ravenfireflyer@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:ravenfireflyer@xxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
I'm in. With a 10" Nike Smoke. M2000 motor or something impressive.
James Dougherty are you in with me? Need your help with this. It's a day off
flying Tankers for me.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 18, 2016, at 11:18 AM, Steve Ainsworth
<SAinsworth@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:SAinsworth@xxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
The Lincoln AirFest Airshow scheduled for Saturday June 11 at the Lincoln
Airport would like to find out if a rocketry club would be willing to provide
one or two demo flights as a part of the airshow.
The organizer has asked me to coordinate, so I obviously thought of TCC.
Something reliable, big, low and slow would be best. I could possibly get them
to fund the motor(s)
I realize this conflicts with LDRS
Any interest?
Steve Ainsworth
