Yeah, I consider that to be two halves of the same spell. And I'd probably rule
in that situation that the returning part of the summons got dispelled so now
the caster will have to deal with them. The Dispel Magic might also dispel the
summoner's control on the creature or creatures, so they wouldn't be charmed to
protect him or her anymore. This makes for a much more interesting scenario
than just making them go poof.
Sent from my HAL 9000 in transit to Jupiter
-----Original Message-----
From: stoddard-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:stoddard-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On ;
Behalf Of Tim Farley ("timfarleynj")
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2021 11:01 AM
To: stoddard@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [stoddard] Re: Bookkeeping
Point of fact: summoned creatures not dead do go back to where they came from.
Stone shape is permanent. The question is whether dispel magic can or should
be able to undo it. I see your point about the detect magic. But even
nondetectable magic should be susceptible to dispel. But, again, it could be a
matter of a saving throw. A 17th level caster casts a spell that a fifth level
caster should have difficulty dispelling, by virtue of the relative power of
the casters.
On Monday, November 1, 2021, 11:53:24 AM EDT, Nicole Massey
<nyyki@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
OOC: It also makes things so much bookkeeping. I don't want to have to track
what was done by minions and what was done by magic, and if permanent doesn't
mean permanent then what is permanent? This kind of thing would make a detect
magic spell useless, unless the magic in things made permanent by spell lose
that magic. Example: I summon a rock. Is that rock now magical? Will casting
Dispel Magic make that rock go back to where it was before? The same goes for
summoned creatures, elements, and other stuff. Why in the world would anyone
with enough intelligence to cast spells let anyone make anything from what was
created by a Material spell? To take it to the highest extreme, a powerful
enough Dispel Magic cast by the right Wizard could unmake all of Stoddard,
since Silva created it through magical means. It's simpler and more
straightforward to make things altered by magic to be permanent and
un-dispellable if the duration says so.
Sent from my HAL 9000 in transit to Jupiter
-----Original Message-----
From: stoddard-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:stoddard-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:stoddard-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ;<mailto:stoddard-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> ]
On Behalf Of Tim Farley ("timfarleynj")
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2021 10:31 AM
To: stoddard@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:stoddard@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [stoddard] Re: Bookkeeping
OOC: That makes them too foolproof. Perhaps some sort of saving throw for the
'permanent' effect when hit with a dispel magic. Willing to say additional
magic can be expended to make it permanent. But, then, you probably suspected
I would be a bit reticent to allow such a thing to not be undoable..
I had a mage who built his stronghold with a lot of walls of stone.
Potentially ugly. But he threw up enough real outer works such as gate houses,
etc., and hit them with magic aura, so to hide the real magical walls amongst a
bunch of fake magical ones.
His big trick as far as paranoid tricks were concerned was passwall, followed
up by a bunch of goblin miners. they make a chamber, he goes with them,
studies it well, and teleports out after the passwall expires.
On Monday, November 1, 2021, 11:20:46 AM EDT, Nicole Massey
<nyyki@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:nyyki@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > wrote:
Carandolana says, "Of course, on a later trip I can make that door go away."
OOC: I've been deep in the spells, and I've come to the opinion that spells
with a duration permanent are alterations to reality, and won't radiate magic
or be able to be dispelled after a short time. Likewise instantaneous durations
are in and done. This makes everything less volatile, because when casting a
Dispel Magic or Mordenkainen's Disjunction very nasty things undetectable could
come down on the magic-user's head. This is a part of my thinking that for
elemental spells the magic is in summoning the element, not in what's summoned,
the same going for the Monster Summoning spells. Making Dispel Magic work on
the spells going on now instead of the effects of past magical use makes a lot
of sense to me. Thoughts, especially from others who run these games?
Sent from my HAL 9000 in transit to Jupiter
-----Original Message-----
From: stoddard-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:stoddard-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<mailto:stoddard-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ;<mailto:stoddard-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >
[mailto:stoddard-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ;<mailto:stoddard-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<mailto:stoddard-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ;<mailto:stoddard-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >
] On Behalf Of Tim Farley ("timfarleynj")
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2021 9:20 AM
To: stoddard@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:stoddard@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<mailto:stoddard@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ;<mailto:stoddard@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >
Subject: [stoddard] Re: Bookkeeping
That's enough for now. He backpedals. "Speaker, this might be something for
you, Pomeroy and Carandolana to deal with. Or maybe we bring in an Ulsarian
expert, or a paladin, or a great big dragon or something. We should seal this,
if not today, tomorrow. Carandolana, would you be willing to shape the stane
so that it cannot be opened short of shaping the stone or excavating it? I
know you probably cannot access that prayer today, but this feels like
something, well, beyond me, that's for sure. Speaker, I suspect Zazerial would
be beside himself with rage at this abomination."
I am sure there is no way for Sean to ascertain when the shrine was last used,
especially when standing outside the chamber, peering in with his flashtube.
But he'll try to gat a handle on it regardless.
"Anybody here a demonologist? or a Devil expert? I suspect some sort of
devil. It doesn't get more antithetical to my personal philosophy than that."
On Monday, November 1, 2021, 09:39:22 AM EDT, SM Baule <smbaule@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:smbaule@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:smbaule@xxxxxxxxx ;
<mailto:smbaule@xxxxxxxxx> > > wrote:
If Sean enters the small altar room, he will sense a shiver of pure evil jolt
through him. This is an area of something very much opposite of his worldview.
The topmost skull does look like it is from the lower outer planes. Not sure
what. Not a vrock.What else might he be looking for?
