[SI-LIST] Re: si-list Digest V3 #259
- From: "Thomas Beneken" <beneken@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 10:18:28 +0200
Hello Hassan,
Thank You for the literature hints. The URL of your second reference is
http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/wang95transient.html .
Regards
Thomas
> Msg: #7 in digest
> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 09:48:13 -0400 (EDT)
> From: "Hassan O. Ali" <hassan@xxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Is this kind of software available in
> the market?
>
> Dan,
>
> What do you mean by "many"? I've never seen any field-solver
> that can faithfully
> generate, broadband, frequency-dependent, per-unit RLGC
> parameters of a lossy,
> transmission line structure with an arbitrary number of
> conductors/ports, from a multi-
> port S-parameter data. In fact I'm looking for it as well. If
> you know of any, please
> let me know.
>
> With ADS, just as Hao said, you can generate an equivalent
> circuit that can give rise to
> approximately same S-parameters but there are various
> limitations. Your S-parameters
> have to be well-behaved; must be narrowband - otherwise too
> difficult to match magnitude
> and phase over the entire frequency range; the equivalent
> circuit will have some
> elements (transmission lines and discretes) but you won't
> easily get ditributed per-unit
> RLGC parameters (at least I've not yet figured out how to get
> them accurately).
>
> As I said, I've been struggling with this problem for quite a
> while now. It's easy with
> a single-conductor transmission line but very difficult for
> more than one conductor.
> There is a very interesting paper (referenced below) that
> apparently does provide a
> methodology for a multiconductor transmission line, but my
> Math skills are too rusty to
> be able to follow it through. Maybe someone in this list can
> read it and provide a free
> tool for the rest of us to use. The paper is:
>
> A. J. Gruodis and C. S. Chang, "Coupled Lossy Transmission
> Line Characterization and
> Simulation", IBM Journal of Reasearch and Development, vol.
> 25, no. 1, January 1981.
>
> Check out the "Data analysis method 2" on page 27. The method
> involves finding an
> inverse of an eigenvector matrix - that just blows me away!
>
> You can get the paper from the IBM Journal repository:
>
> http://domino.research.ibm.com/tchjr/journalindex.nsf/Home?OpenForm
>
> There is also an interesting Ph.D. thesis by Jimmy Shinh-Hwa
> Wang, University of
> California Santa Cruz, 1995, that covers the same issue and
> more. I came across the
> thesis while searching the web on the subject, but
> unfortunately I don't have the URL
> for it - I only have a hardcopy. The thesis is titled:
> "Transient Analysis of Coupled
> Transmission Lines Characterized with Frequency-Dependent
> Losses or Measured Scattering-
> Parameter Data and Optimal Design of Self-Damped Interconnects".
>
> By the way, there are tools (mostly 2D field-solvers) that
> generate RLGC parameters of
> multi-conductor transmission lines, but most of them extract
> parameters directly - not
> through S-parameters.
>
> Regards.
>
> Hassan.
>
>
> On Sep 8 , "Swanson, Dan" <Dan.Swanson@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > Hao,
> >
> > Many of the MoM and FEM field-solvers
> > have this capability. I have not used
> > it much so can't comment. I am not aware
> > of a stand alone program that will do this.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> > Dan Swanson EMAIL: d.swanson@xxxxxxxx
> > Andrew Corp. PHONE: 978-834-4085
> > 37 South Hunt Road FAX: 978-388-7077
> > Amesbury, MA 01913
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: haowang@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:haowang@xxxxxxxxxx]
> > > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 4:24 PM
> > > To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: [SI-LIST] Is this kind of software available in
> the market?
> > >
> > >
> > > All,
> > >
> > > Here I have a multi-port system and the S-parameter
> result of this =
> > > system. Is there a software which can generate a network
> > > consisting of =
> > > L,C,R and transmission lines which can lead to the same S
> > > parameter? It =
> > > seems that Agilent ADS has this kind of ability. But when I
> > > tried a 5 =
> > > ports example, it failed.=20
> > >
> > > Thank you
> > > Hao Wang
> > > Micron Technology Inc. =20
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