HSPICE can support different package type as defined in ICM spec.=20 You do not need to have the lumped value of R/L/C. Regards. -----Original Message----- From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] = On Behalf Of Lynne D. Green Sent: 2006=C4=EA5=D4=C27=C8=D5 2:19 To: prathibha@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; 'SI-List' Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: how to extract RLC values for package Hello, Prathibha, Are you perhaps planning to create an IBIS pkg model? It sounds like = you have the data to do that. If you use a pkg model, it replaces the parameters R_pkg, L_pkg, and = C_pkg. In that case, the "*_pkg" subparameters could be: R_pkg =3D the sum of resistances for a typical pin L_pkg =3D the sum of = inductances for a typical pin + bondwire inductance (if any) C_pkg =3D the sum of capacitances for a typical pin Some tools might allow an ICM model for the package model (replacing the = "*_pkg" subparameters. You would need to talk to the EDA tool vendors = about details. Best regards, Lynne "IBIS training when you need it, where you need it." Dr. Lynne Green Green Streak Programs http://www.greenstreakprograms.com 425-788-0412 lgreen22@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] = On Behalf Of Prathibha Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 3:56 AM To: SI-List Subject: [SI-LIST] how to extract RLC values for package Hi Gurus , How can we get the RLC values for a package ?. We have extracted = package model, but could not get a combined RLC values . We are using = APD for designing the package . Please advise . Thanks and Regards, Prathibha -----Original Message----- From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Istvan Novak Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 6:40 PM To: GStokes@xxxxxxxxx Cc: SI-List Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Routing Signals Between PWB Layers - Part 2 Geoff, Doug, This example nicely shows the importance of proper power distribution = design. The emission peaks correspond to the modal resonances of the PCB planes. As Doug points out in the article, moving the planes closer would reduce = the emission about proportionally. However, if one wants to stay with a = four-layer construction, reducing the plane separation is not a viable solution: it would either result in an unmanageably thin board, or if we = add the tickhness back to the top/bottom dielectrics, in a dramatically = reduced routing density. Nearby grounding vias would help, but in practical cases the two planes = are at different DC potentials, so it must be a bypass capacitor rather = than a stitching via. A single bypass capacitor will do little in the = hundreds of MHz frequency range, even if it serves only one signal. = Also, if we have wide busses instead of a single trace, trying to = provide a return path locally to all of the layer transitions becomes = much harder to implement. A more realistic and straightforward solution is to design the = power-distribution network in such a way that it does not exhibit large = resonances. In multi-layer boards, where we may also have ground-ground = planes creating such cavities, the solution is stitching vias, but not = necessarily near the layer transitions. We would just need to make sure = that the large resonating cavity is broken up to sufficiently small = blocks such that the lowest resonance frequency is safely above the = highest frequency of excitation. Regards, Istvan Novak SUN Microsystems Geoff Stokes wrote: >Hi Doug > >In this experiment, you appear to have no plane vias adjacent to the=20 >signal vias. What would happen if a few plane vias were added around=20 >the transitions and fairly close by? > >Geoff Stokes >Systems Engineer >Zetex Semiconductors plc >Zetex Technology Park >Chadderton >Oldham >OL9 9LL >UK >=3D20 >+44-161-622-4857 >www.zetex.com >www.zetex.cn >=3D20 > >=3D20 >-----Original Message----- >From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >[mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] >On Behalf Of Doug Smith >Sent: 03 May 2006 21:41 >To: SI-List >Subject: [SI-LIST] Routing Signals Between PWB Layers - Part 2 > >Hi All, > >I have been writing and recording again and have posted part 2 of = my=3D20=20 >article on signals that change layers in a PWB. > >Abstract: Printed wiring board, PWB, signal paths must often = change=3D20=20 >layers in a board stackup. Under some conditions this can cause=3D20=20 >problems. An emissions example is used to illustrate the = conditions=3D20=20 >where changing layers can cause problems. > >The link to the article is the picture of the emissions plot at = the=3D20=20 >bottom of the home page at http://emcesd.com . > >There is also an audio discussion of this article on my podcast=20 >site:=3D20 http://emcesd-podcast.com where the direct link to the = article is: > >http://emcesd-podcast.com/2006/may/2006-0503.mp3 > >Can't download mp3 files? Download the following instead: > >http://emcesd-podcast.com/2006/may/2006-0503.dcs > >After download, change the extension from .dcs to .mp3 and the = file=3D20=20 >will then be able to play on most computers. Since the last HFNews=3D20 = >there have been two new podcasts posted. > >Doug >--=3D20 >------------------------------------------------------- > ___ _ Doug Smith > \ / ) P.O. Box 1457 > =3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D Los = Gatos, CA 95031-1457 > _ / \ / \ _ TEL/FAX: 408-356-4186/358-3799 > / /\ \ ] / /\ \ Mobile: 408-858-4528 >| q-----( ) | o | Email: doug@xxxxxxxxxx > \ _ / ] \ _ / Website: http://www.dsmith.org >------------------------------------------------------- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List FAQ wiki page is located at: http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.org List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List FAQ wiki page is located at: http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.org List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List FAQ wiki page is located at: http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.org List archives are viewable at: =20 //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu =20 ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List FAQ wiki page is located at: http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.org List archives are viewable at: =20 //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu =20 ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List FAQ wiki page is located at: http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.org List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu