[SI-LIST] Re: Microstrip Trace under Nickel
- From: "Grasso, Charles" <Charles.Grasso@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <ryan.satrom@xxxxxxxxxxx>, <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 10:26:35 -0600
If you have a problem solved in HFSS - you can contact their
Apps Engineers to figure out how to get Zo from your solution.
Or - Use a 2D extractor.
Best Regards
Charles Grasso
Senior Compliance Engineer
Echostar Communications Corp.
Tel: 303-706-5467
Fax: 303-799-6222
Cell: 303-204-2974
Pager/Short Message: 3032042974@xxxxxxxx
Email: charles.grasso@xxxxxxxxxxxx;
Email Alternate: chasgrasso@xxxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of ryansatrom
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 9:58 AM
To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Microstrip Trace under Nickel
Aubrey-
Yes, thank you very much for that last explanation. I was=20
struggling to understand the relationship because I couldn't find=20
anywhere the inductance increasing by 600X. Running simple=20
hypothetical simulations in HFSS has shown that TOTAL inductance is=20
higher at low frequencies, but starts to converge as frequencies=20
increase - just as you suggested.
Thanks for the help. That 600 value was really causing confusion. =20
But now at least i'm starting to understand the relationship.
--- In si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, <Aubrey_Sparkman@...> wrote:
>
> Let's be a little careful; it's the internal inductance that goes=20
up.
> The permeability of 600 affects only the magnetic fields that=20
penetrate
> the nickel; therefore impacting crosstalk and skin effect. IE, the
> higher the frequency, the less the effect.
>=20
> So I am NOT saying the TOTAL (internal + external) inductance goes=20
up
> 600X. And since nickel purity and processing affect the=20
permeability,
> you need to investigate the range of possible values.=3D3D20
> =3D3D20
>=20
>=20
> Aubrey Sparkman=3D3D20
> Enterprise Engineering Signal Integrity Team
> Dell, Inc.=3D3D20
> Aubrey_Sparkman@...=3D3D20
> (512) 723-3592
>=20
> The Greatest Pleasure in Life is Doing what People say can't be=20
done...
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: si-list-bounce@... [mailto:si-list-bounce@...]
> On Behalf Of steve weir
> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 10:08 AM
> To: ryan.satrom@...; si-list@...
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Microstrip Trace under Nickel
>=20
> Ryan the Telegrapher's equations still hold. Provided the=20
material does
> not saturate, ignoring fringing for a rectangular section: L=3D3D3D =
=3D3D
> u0*uR*H/X
> UMR has a web calculator that if I recall correctly allows you to=20
input
> uR.
>=20
> So, for a uR of 600 and no saturation, the inductance would go up=20
by
> 600X and the impedance by about 24-25X. You can see that it=20
doesn't
> take much nickel to really throw things off.
>=20
> Steve.
> At 07:53 AM 5/10/2006, ryansatrom wrote:
> >Aubrey-
> >
> >I am well aware of the definition of permeability. However,=20
i'm=3D3D20
> >struggling with this relationship. For example:
> >
> >Capacitance increases proportionally to dielectric contstant=3D3D20
> >(permittivity).
> >
> >So if permeability does the same to inductance as permittivity=20
does to=3D3D20
> >capacitance, then then inductance of a signal-return path made=20
purely=3D3D20
> >of nickel (no plating, used strictly for example) has 600 times=20
the=3D3D20
> >inductance of the same signal-return path made from gold?
> >
> >Are you saying that is true?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------
> >To unsubscribe from si-list:
> >si-list-request@... with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
> >
> >or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
> >//www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
> >
> >For help:
> >si-list-request@... with 'help' in the Subject field
> >
> >List FAQ wiki page is located at:
> > http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ
> >
> >List technical documents are available at:
> > http://www.si-list.org
> >
> >List archives are viewable at:
> > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
> >or at our remote archives:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages
> >Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
> > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
> >
>=20
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from si-list:
> si-list-request@... with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
>=20
> or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
> //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
>=20
> For help:
> si-list-request@... with 'help' in the Subject field
>=20
> List FAQ wiki page is located at:
> http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ
>=20
> List technical documents are available at:
> http://www.si-list.org
>=20
> List archives are viewable at: =3D3D20
> //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
> or at our remote archives:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages
> Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
> http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
> =3D3D20
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from si-list:
> si-list-request@... with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
>=20
> or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
> //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
>=20
> For help:
> si-list-request@... with 'help' in the Subject field
>=20
> List FAQ wiki page is located at:
> http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ
>=20
> List technical documents are available at:
> http://www.si-list.org
>=20
> List archives are viewable at: =20
> //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
> or at our remote archives:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages
> Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
> http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
>
------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from si-list:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
//www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
For help:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
List FAQ wiki page is located at:
http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ
List technical documents are available at:
http://www.si-list.org
List archives are viewable at: =20
//www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
or at our remote archives:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages
Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
=20
------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from si-list:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
//www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
For help:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
List FAQ wiki page is located at:
http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ
List technical documents are available at:
http://www.si-list.org
List archives are viewable at:
//www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
or at our remote archives:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages
Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
Other related posts:
