[SI-LIST] Re: Inexpensive SI software
- From: "Istvan Nagy" <buenos@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "Dave Pollum" <david.pollum@xxxxxxxxxxx>, <wolfgang.maichen@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 19:09:53 -0000
Hi
" I don't have yet found any good, free tools that can do really complicated
3D structures like vias."
for the 3D:
try LC from Cray Inc.: http://lc.cray.com/
and also fasthenry: http://www.fastfieldsolvers.com/
For power integity, we also have a few free options:
1. model planes in Sonnet Lite or Sphynx-Student, extract touchstone model.
2. put the touchstone models and lumped decoupling models into QUCS and run
AC simulation.
3. If you want ot see plane resonances in time domain, use MeFisto 3D nova.
regards,
Istvan Nagy
----- Original Message -----
From: <wolfgang.maichen@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Dave Pollum" <david.pollum@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 5:57 PM
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Inexpensive SI software
> Hello Dave,
> as far as I can tell you'll be hard pressed to find free (or inexpensive)
> software that can simulate your whole board (or even larger sections
> thereof), be reasonably user-friendly, etc. But you can often get pretty
> far by putting a set of free tools together. I find myself using the
> following quite often (note that I do not have any vested interest in
> those tools/companies, and there are quite a few other free tools with
> similar capabilities):
>
> - TXLine and Polar's CITS calculator for quick impedance calculations
> - TNT 2D field solver (available from Sourceforge) for homogeneous
> transmission line impedance and crosstalk calculations
> - Sonnet Lite to simulate isolated, small substructures like bends, breaks
> in the reference plane, etc.
> - PSpice 9.2 to simulate models created by the above tools
> - TLinesim to generate TDR plots, VNA plots, data eyes for transmission
> line (includes _causal_ loss modeling!)
>
> The above toolset will not make a dent in your your piggybank since all
> programs are free.
>
> I don't have yet found any good, free tools that can do really complicated
> 3D structures like vias.
>
> Hope that helps you in your search
>
> Wolfgang
> '
>
>
>
>
>
> Dave Pollum <david.pollum@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent by: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> 01/14/2010 08:28 PM
>
> To
> si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> cc
>
> Subject
> [SI-LIST] Re: Inexpensive SI software
>
>
>
>
>
>
> All:
> It doesn't have to be HyperLynx ;) It could be some other product. I
> don't know anything about
> Hspice, and at $12K, I can't afford it. BTW, does anyone know what
> Altium's Designer product's SI
> module is like.
>
> -Dave Pollum
>
>
> Joel Brown wrote:
>> Although we have Hyperlynx, I find myself using Hspice instead.
>> The drawback is you have to manually enter models in a text file but it
> has
>> a lot of flexibility. I find Hyperlynx very clumsy when it comes to
> using
>> different types of models such as IBIS, Hspice, RGLC, etc.
>> I think Hspice costs around $12K. Often IC vendors can only provide
> Hspice
>> models and then you have no choice anyway.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On
>> Behalf Of Dave Pollum
>> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 3:47 PM
>> To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [SI-LIST] Inexpensive SI software
>>
>> I've been doing some freelance PCB layout using a low cost PCB CAD
> software
>> (Cadsoft's EAGLE). I'm
>> getting into situations designing denser 4 layer boards where it would
> handy
>> to use an SI tool. I'm
>> concerned about rise/fall times of 1 - 2 ns or faster signals,
> crosstalk,
>> the effects of long
>> traces, and switching layers (top to bottom), etc. I've download the
>> HyperLynx demo (BoardSim &
>> LineSIM), and it looks really cool. But I can't actually use the demo
> to
>> anything real. And I
>> suspect I can't afford it. I'd like to spend no more than $4K(USD). As
> an
>> alternative, I've
>> considered buying Altium's Designer software ($4K) that claims to have
>> built-in SI abilities. Are
>> Altium's SI features any good?
>>
>> Suggestions, anyone?
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