Hi Istvan,
Thank you for the added clarification and pointers. These are certainly worth
digging into further.
Thank you,
Samit
On May 22, 2020, at 4:45 PM, Istvan Novak <istvan.novak@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Samit,
Please keep in mind that what Yuriy shows on slide 24 of #2020_02 refers to
the ideal matched case, one of the extreme situations. Pay close attention to
the note: "no reflections - we can only wish that our channel are like that".
You can find additional simple illustrations that you can repeat yourself
with LTSPICE:
http://www.electrical-integrity.com/Quietpower_files/QuietPower-52.pdf This ;
article illustrates with lossless transmission lines that in steady state
there is a periodic fluctuation in the response as the forward and reverse
traveling waves create standing waves due to reflections at the source and
load. And this brings me to the comment about the other extreme scenarios
that Tom brought up: even with very small and very high characteristic
impedances (in other words with close to unity magnitude of voltage
reflection coefficients at the source and load) you will get an undistorted
clean copy of the source signal (minus absorption loss along the line) when
you have the half-wave resonance cases. You can try it with any circuit
simulator or with
http://www.electrical-integrity.com/Tool_download_files/Clock_WExcel2016-32-64b_v10.xlsm
Regards,
Istvan Novak
Samtec
On 5/22/2020 6:16 PM, Samit Ashdhir wrote:
Hi Yuriy,
This is awesome!! Thank you for the pointer and exactly what I had been
trying to dig-up. (I knew one year I missed DesignConn, I would miss on some
great learnings)
Appreciate both yours and Tom help to get better understanding of
relationship between channel impedance and insertion loss!
Thanks again,
Samit
------------------------------------------------------------------On May 22, 2020, at 2:53 PM, Yuriy Shlepnev <shlepnev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Samit,
The expression is very simple - take a look at slide 24 at #2020_02 at
https://www.simberian.com/TechnicalPresentations.php
Yuriy
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On ;
Behalf Of Samit Ashdhir
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2020 2:47 PM
To: tom@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: dmarc-noreply-outsider@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Impact of channel impedance on channel Insertion Loss
Hi Tom,
Thank you for an intuitive explanation and it certainly provides good
insight into understanding impact of impedance mismatch to insertion loss.
Considering these extreme cases, I’m wondering if there is some easy
mathematical relationship between Zo and S21 that can provide added
insights. Any pointers there?
Thank you,
Samit
------------------------------------------------------------------On May 22, 2020, at 2:21 PM, Tom Dagostino <tom@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:Samit
Any energy that is reflected back to the source is not available to the
load. If the channel does not match the source impedance you will see a
reflection, energy returning to the source. Any mismatch at the load will
cause energy to return to the source.
I like to look at extreme cases sometimes. If the Zo of the channel is 0
Ohms all of the energy is reflected to the source and nothing can get to
the
load. If the channel has infinite Zo again nothing gets to the load.
Regards,
Tom Dagostino
971-279-5325
tom@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Teraspeed Labs
10367 NW Alpenglow Way
Portland, OR 97229
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Samit Ashdhir (Redacted sender "ashdhir" for DMARC)
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2020 9:02 AM
To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Impact of channel impedance on channel Insertion Loss
Hello SI Gurus,
I have a quick (and hopefully a simple) question. I was wondering if
someone
has pointers or thoughts to help understand how a channel impedance impacts
insertion loss. I understand that impedance discontinuities will impact
return loss, but struggling to understand how a channel impedance will
impact insertion loss.
In other words, for a given channel if impedance is above target impedance,
is it right to assume insertion loss at a given frequency will be lower and
same goes the other way?
Thank you and appreciate your insights,
Samit
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