Here is another private reply, which could be interest. I don't think Scott would mind me sharing! Neither, on the first line, should have been "in either" or "both", as the rest of the reply detailed! I like to think this topic and its replies generated some interesting topics of discussions later! ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: elie issa <eliaissa1@xxxxxxxxx> To: Scott McMorrow <scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 9:50:53 AM Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] Re: SSN We may be in conflict about terminology, crosstalk clearly saturates neither in near and far end, while its saturation at near end dependent on the critical length, calculated from rise time and two unites time delay, far end saturates when the even and odd modes components separates, in a non homogeneous environment. I am talking here about the rise noise voltages at the ground and power lines saturation, which are not linear, can saturate and reverse From: Scott McMorrow <scott@xxxxxxxxxxxx> To: elie issa <eliaissa1@xxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 12:31:12 PM Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] Re: SSN Elie I would debate your statement "we know". If SSN is defined to be the summation of crosstalk from all sources, plus SSO voltage rail collapse of the drivers as a result of multiple drivers switching, then saturation of crosstalk against a victim occurs only as the result of increasingly large spatial distances, and SSO voltage rail collapse saturates only as a result of decreasing driver di/dt as the entire voltage rail collapses. Cumulative sum of crosstalk reaches an asymptote, and does not reverse. SSO can only reduce when voltage rail collapse feedback into the drivers causes a reduction in gain. regards, Scott Scott McMorrow Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC 121 North River Drive Narragansett, RI 02882 (401) 284-1827 Business (401) 284-1840 Fax http://www.teraspeed.com Teraspeed® is the registered service mark of Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC On 10/21/2011 12:12 PM, elie issa wrote: It looks like my second line got clipped: We know that SSN saturates after switching a certain number of outputs, based on the relation N*L*di/dt, and starts a reverse process,.. From: elie issa <eliaissa1@xxxxxxxxx> To: "si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 11:50:37 AM Subject: SSN I'd like tp propose this topic: we know that SSN staurates after switching a certain number of outputs, and start could someone elaborate on the reasoning behind the saturation, and are there designed applications taking advantage of this aspect of it out there Also, system crosstalk worsen because of package parameters, so beside crosstalk at package level, ssn also contribute to crosstalk, could some explain what happens there? Thank you Elie ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.net List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List forum is accessible at: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu