[SI-LIST] Re: For SI beginner
- From: johnn william <johnnfaq@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 21:44:38 -0700 (PDT)
Thanks to all for showing interest in clearing my queries regarding RF board Vs
High speed board :-)
I am doing second year of my engineering and like to concentrate more on Signal
behaviour.
With the response from all it really helps me to stretch further my ambition.
But still I need some guidance from expertise to make by basic stronger.
Questions:
We study more on types of signals, fourier transforms,modulation on basic
circuits but when I see some circuits downloaded its appears more complex say
schematic having DDR signals. But on modelling using spectra quest it just asks
to attach the IBIS models and the signals environment and on analysing it gives
me the wave form from driver to receiver with overshoot and undershoot.I feel
it behaves like a robot feed in and get output.But I see lot of parameters like
temp,dielectric constant,impedance involves in circuit behaviour but how these
behaves practically? how it related with one another? how actually EM waves
propagate on transmission like with all obstacles like cross talk,impedance
mismatch, with various types of load?. Basically I want to apply my learning to
actual reality.
Please provide me some information like any online seminars or books or URL
which focuss the basics of signal behaviour.
I feel sometimes my question will be more basic and awful (which my professor
some times says and replies back "clear it when you feel it as wrong
implementation costs others life/time and that's Electronics")
I have book named "The SI simplified" and its with me as a guidance for now.I
enjoyed as it explains more on basics.Spectra quest for doing my labs.
I also suggest to the Admin/Group to put some training session where you have
some small circuit and the models explaning the circuits behaviour why,How and
When it behaves Good/Bad. And the new user like me can download for studying.
Awaiting to have your comments and suggestion.
Thank you for all once again.
- John.
Andrew Burnside <Andrew.Burnside@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Glenn
Fair enough, but these bandwidths are still much greater than the 20kHz cited.
Group delay is still a problem, maybe not as bad as a 10GHz digital system, but
still worth consideration, especially if running higher order modulation
schemes.
As an illustration of larger RF bandwidths, electronics warfare systems can
easily have 10-20GHz of received bandwidth per antenna. The RF front end then
may channelise this, to more manageable bandwidths e.g 1-2GHz, but somewhere on
the RF board there will still be the full bandwidth.
Andrew
________________________________
From: glenn_wood@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:glenn_wood@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wed 24/08/2005 18:33
To: Andrew Burnside; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: RF board Vs High speed board ... RF amplifiers
Does anyone know of any off the shelf parts that can *linearly* amplify Ultra
Wideband Signals and with a F3dB as high as 10GHz? Actually, in this case, the
carrier can be considered to be 2.5GHz and the bandwidth extends down to 500MHz
(or 0.2 of carrier).
Thanks
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Andrew Burnside
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 11:05 AM
To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: RF board Vs High speed board
Hi Lynne/John
RF signals are not necessarily narrowband.
For example, Ultra Wideband Signals (becoming more common these days) have a
bandwidth of at least 0.25 of the carrier frequency.
The other case that wideband RF is often seen on boards these days is in Direct
Digital Downconversion architectures. You might see in excess of 1GHz going
into ADCs, and that's only the IF! In this case the wideband IF often contains
several signals.
Usually some steps have been taken by the implementer of an RF system to limit
the bandwidth, similar to pre-emphasis and de-emphasis in a high speed digital
system. So usually the RF board will have slightly more rounded signals, but
these may have higher rms power than the high speed digital system, especially
in a PA subsystem.
Regards
Andrew
________________________________
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of Lynne D. Green
Sent: Wed 24/08/2005 17:27
To: johnnfaq@xxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: RF board Vs High speed board
Hello, John,
RF signals are "narrow band", i.e. modulation is superimposed on a carrier
frequency. The modulation bandwidth is significantly smaller than the
carrier frequency (your car radio is a good example - carrier is around
100kHz, bandwidth is around 20kHz.) RF requires filtering to remove the
carrier and recover the signal.
High-speed signals are "wide band", i.e. they have significant frequency
content from DC to hundreds of times the modulation rate. For an ideal
interconnect, filtering is not required to recover the original signal.
(And, although rates are usually given in MHz, they really mean Mbaud.)
Best regards,
Lynne
"IBIS training when you need it, where you need it."
Dr. Lynne Green
Green Streak Programs
http://www.greenstreakprograms.com
425-788-0412
lgreen22@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of johnn william
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 4:19 AM
To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] RF board Vs High speed board
Hi All,
Please anyone in group clarify the difference in handling the RF board
compared to normal High speed boards.
Thanks in advance.
John
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