[SI-LIST] Re: FWD: RE: Some issues related to spiral inductor modelling.
- From: "Swanson, Dan" <Dan_Swanson@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "'mike_bihan@xxxxxxxxxxxx'" <mike_bihan@xxxxxxxxxxxx>,si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 08:18:07 -0500
Bi Han,
Is this a spiral on silicon or some other PCB material?
The silicon case is tough because of the very lossy,
semi-insulating substrate.
How wide a frequency range are you trying to cover with your
model?
How many turns in the spiral?
For a small spiral on a PCB, a simple, non-frequency dependent
lumped model should work. Shunt C - Series L - Shunt C. You
can add a C in parallel with the series L (First resonance).
And you can add resistors in series with the L and in parallel
with the C's for losses (conductor and substrate).
I would not use optimization at first. I would convert my S-param
data to Y-parameters. Then write out the Y-matrix for your model.
With a little algebra you can extract the lumped element values
directly with no optimization. You then might try some touch up
optimization at the end, but only on a couple variables at a time.
Sometimes when you model values are frequency dependent it indicates
that the model is wrong or is somehow too simple. Brute force =
optimization
will often converge to different final values depending on the starting
point you give it.
There is a lot of info in the microwave community on spiral modeling.
If you search IEEE Trans on Microwave Theory and Tech or IEEE Microwave
and Wireless Components Letters (was Microwave and Guided Wave Letters)
you will find a lot of info.
Dan
Dan Swanson EMAIL: d.swanson@xxxxxxxx
Forem USA PHONE: 978-834-4085
37 South Hunt Road FAX: 978-388-7077
Amesbury, MA 01913
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bi Han [mailto:mike_bihan@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 3:41 AM
> To: List` Si
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: FWD: RE: Some issues related to spiral=20
> inductor modelling.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Thanks every for answers.Still, i want to give my concerns again.
>=20
> 1. Since we can easily use some equivlent circuit to=20
> represent the spiral, however their values are=20
> freq-dependent!!! How to take it into account in Hspice?
>=20
> 2. Anyone have the experience of generating spice-equivelent=20
> circuit from S-parameter? Can you tell me something about=20
> above spice-model of spiral inductor?Will it give us a good result?
>=20
> 3. How can we obtain those freq-dependent parameters? Is that=20
> correct to compute those parameters at each freq point?
>=20
> =20
>=20
> Thanks! =20
>=20
> Bi, Han
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ---------------------------------
> Do You Yahoo!?
> =
"=BF=EE=BF=EE=B8=DF=B9=F3=B5=E4=D1=C5=A3=AC=B5=E3=BB=F7=B2=CE=BC=D3=C6=FB=
=B3=B5=B5=F7=B2=E9!"
>=20
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from si-list:
> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
>=20
> or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
> //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
>=20
> For help:
> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
>=20
> List archives are viewable at: =20
> //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
> or at our remote archives:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages=20
> Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
> http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
> =20
>=20
------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from si-list:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
//www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
For help:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
List archives are viewable at:
//www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
or at our remote archives:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages
Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
Other related posts:
