[SI-LIST] Re: Dielctric loss microstip/stripline
- From: "Jian X. Zheng" <jian@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <Christopher.Jakubiec@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, <babid_a@xxxxxxxxx>, <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 13:34:24 -0800
Hi, All:
I think dielectric loss is related to the region where the E-field is
distributed. The reason for stripline to have more dielectric loss is that
both the top and bottom sides of a stripline circuit are dielectrics.
E-field is distributed in more region than a microstrip line, where only the
bottom side of the space is dielectrics. The top side of a microstrip is air
and there is little loss from it.
Microstrip Stripline
------------------
////////////////// top side
-----====-------- -----====--------
///////////////// ///////////////// bottom side
-------------------- ------------------
From what I see, for IC or MMIC structures, metallic loss is much bigger
than dielectric loss. For RFIC or PCB, the dielectrics normally are very
lossy and the dielectric loss is significant.
Best regards,
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jian X. Zheng, Zeland Software, Inc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----Original Message-----
> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Christopher.Jakubiec@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 1:04 PM
> To: babid_a@xxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Dielctric loss microstip/stripline
>
> Babid,
>
> I believe that the dielectric loss is related to the heating effect of
> the dielectric material between conductors. Now consider how this would
> be different between microstrip and stripline, which one would dissipate
> more heat??
>
> -Chris Jakubiec
> Infineon Technologies=20
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Babid A
> Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 2:35 PM
> To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Dielctric loss microstip/stripline=20
>
> Why is the dielectric loss lower in microstrip compared to stripline?
> =20
> -Thanks
> Ray Anderson <ray.anderson@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Forwarded to the list for Bob (rhaller@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Haller, Robert [mailto:rhaller@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D20
> Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 6:31 AM
> To: ray.anderson
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Microstrip/Stripline
>
> Ray Can you please post this to Si-list (until such time as we resolve
> my posting issues)
> ----------------------------------------
>
> This Micro-strip Strip-line thread is an interesting discussion that I
> have previously pursued off-line with a few colleagues/list members. I
> would love to see hard bench data that is a true apple to apples
> comparison in time and frequency domains. =3D20
>
> I have past experience in board shops and typical Micro-strip processes
> do exhibit higher variations and until recently always preferred
> stripline environments. But recent 2D/3D simulations have led me to
> believe that Micro-strip can be designed to produce 'longer' working
> links. =3D20
>
> A number of folks I have discussed this issue with agree that=3D20
> Microstrip usually has Higher crosstalk=3D20 More difficult to control
> Z0=3D20 Lower dielectric losses (not including Solder mask) Can avoid =
> via
> stubs =3D20 Stripline usually has Lower crosstalk Homogenous environment
> (except for glass weave) Higher dielectric losses Via stubs
>
> But what happens when you are routing high-speed differential networks
> (Module and/or Backplanes) and you want to accurately compare theses 2
> unique environments with similar routing densities.
>
> Equivalent line widths/lengths between stripline and microstrip,
> Microstrip with LPISM (Solder mask) and no via stubs, Microstrip
> conductor shape not as well controlled.
>
> Dual stripling - Single reference plane (second plane far away),
> Stripline with Via stubs.
>
> Regards, Bob
>
> Robert Haller
> Enterasys Networks
> Core Routing - Hardware
> Phone: 978-684-1340=3D20
> FAX: 978-684-1499
>
>
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