Hi David : You are right . The challenge is that the traditional eye-diagram = analysis method is not good for DDR . Let me introduce a new way to do = that . I am not sure what you are working with , DDR chipset , DIMM , = motherboard .... ? Anyway, let me try to give some comments. =20 1. If you are measuring timing only , say , tAC, tDQSCK , ....=20 a) Acquiring CLK , DQS , DQ first , define the reference edge for = the eye-diagram , say , both rising edge for clock . b) Folding all the rising edges to the reference point (scope's = trigger point) then get a real time eye-diagram of DQ . With this method , there is no trigger jitter , no dead time = with the scope .=20 You can identify the read or write by the timing easily .=20 c) A mask can be used to find the worst casae timing for either = write or read cycles . And you can unfolding the mask to the failure = bits so that you can measure the exact timing or signal integrity = related to it . ( Please note that you should not set the trigger condition on one = channel and get eye-diagram on another channel with traditional method = , that just do not work for DDR) =20 With the above method , you can measure many timing paramters = simultaneously and get the worst case quickly . 2. If you are measuring signal integrity ,including crosstalk ,SSN ... = , you may want to isolate write cycles eye-diagram or read cycles = diagram. a) I guess you are using EDA simulation software also , it's very = easy for you to know that the amplitude of DQ read signals at golden = finger side (for a DIMM ) is much lower than that at the chipset pins . = So , test the DQ , DQS , CLK at near gold finger side please . =20 b) Removing the lower amplitude information from the DQ signals , = then only write cycles are left and then you can get a real time = eye-diagram based the method using in 1 . For DIMM side , only write = is concerned . You get it .=20 c) You can define a mask for the eye-diagram , and do mask = unfolding when there is any failure .=20 3. Alternative solution : Read pre-amble is ~ 1 clock cycle , write preamble is not fixed , = it can vary from 0.25 cycle to ~ 1 clock cycles , depends on the = vendors you are working with .=20 Sometimes, trigger on preamble can work if write and read = preamble are different . To minimize the trigger jitter caused by the = scopes , you need a software to get an accurate eye-diagram display . = (preamble is a negative pulse) I have hundreds of screenshot of DDR eye-diagram measurements . Certainly , this solution is using a software based on an = oscilloscope .=20 I am not sure whether it can be of help . It will not help if the = scopes you are using is different with mine . Regards Jiwei Du Product Line Manager=20 -----Original Message----- From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx = [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Novak David Sent: 2004=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8828=E6=97=A5 11:19 To: si-list Subject: [SI-LIST] DDR Eye diagrams For measuring DDR eye diagrams, the best location to measure reads is = at =3D the memory controller and the best place to measure writes is at the = =3D DDR. For example, measuring reads at the DDR will show more reflections = =3D than actually seen by the memory controller (I should mention that I = =3D have only series termination). This sounds simple, but I cannot think of a way to make the scope =3D differentiate between reads and writes. You might suggest that I create = =3D a memory test which only does reads or only does writes. However, my = =3D worst case signals are when the entire system is running. Can anyone tell me how to make the scope trigger only on reads or only = =3D on writes? Thanks, David ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List FAQ wiki page is located at: http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.org List archives are viewable at: =20 //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu =20 ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List FAQ wiki page is located at: http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.org List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu