[SI-LIST] Re: Co-Relation between Mentor Graphics ICX SI measurements & Actual SI Measurements
- From: "Hargin, Bill" <bill_hargin@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "'gguida@xxxxxxxxxx'" <gguida@xxxxxxxxxx>,shiraz_bashir@xxxxxxxxx, si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 06:04:35 -0800
One answer or one tool will not fit all users, all designs, or all situations.
The concept of marginal benefit vs. marginal cost needs to be applied here when
talking about 2D vs. 3D simulators. If, for example, a 2D simulator takes 30
min. to set up, and gives you a 95% accurate answer (the set up and the
accuracy will depend on the tool, the situation, and the model), this may be a
reasonable solution for a large percentage of your work ... As compared to a 3D
tool, which takes a good bit more time to set up, typically, and requires
exponentially longer simulation times. If the 3D simulator gets you a 5-10%
accuracy improvement (again, this will depend on the situation), was it worth
the extra time?
Knowing what tools apply to each situation, and making the ROI trade-offs for
those tools is the type of decision that we as engineers get paid to make.
Bill Hargin
Product Manager - HyperLynx
Mentor Graphics Corp.
425-497-5079 - Direct
P.S. As to the accuracy of ICX, I think you'll be happy. As others have said,
the limiting factor will end up being an IBIS model issue of some type before
it's likely to be a simulator problem. Personally, I'd rather have an answer
that's close early in the design process, than have a bench measurement that's
near perfect on a design that doesn't work because I didn't simulate.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Giancarlo Guida
> Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 10:10 PM
> To: shiraz_bashir@xxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Co-Relation between Mentor Graphics ICX SI
> measurements & Actual SI Measurements
>
>
> Hi
> in my opinion
> the accuracy of an SI simulation strongly depends
> on 2 factors:
> 1) quality of I/O buffer models
> 2) extraction of the model for the Pcb signals
>
> For the second factor you should consider that
> if the exctraction you are using is based only on 2D
> alghorithm then
> it could be not such accurate at least in some cases
>
> As you said due to the complexity of the board
> and the increase speed often a 3D approach is a must ...
>
> I performed simulation based on mixed 3D/2D approach
> and the comparison between measurement and simulation
> is really good
>
> Simulation is not going to substitue measurement
> but if used during design can allow to obtain high quality product
> saving time and effort.
>
> Giancarlo
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shiraz Bashir" <shiraz_bashir@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 7:22 AM
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Co-Relation between Mentor Graphics ICX SI
> measurements &
> Actual SI Measurements
>
>
> All,
>
> Would me body please tell me that is there any
> co-relation between Mentor Graphic's ICX SI
> measurements and actual SI measurements ?
>
> Can we rely solely on IBIS models provided by
> manufacturers to 'acuratley' predict SI measurements ?
> Or one has to 'improve' the IBIS models ?
>
> With today's time to market pressures, complexity of
> circuit boards, does one can rely on Mentor Graphic's
> ICX tool to predict SI problems so that one can reduce
> the actual SI measurements on board ?
>
> thanks in advance for your time and help.
>
> shiraz bashir
>
>
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