Just piling on.... We did more or less the same thing with Vahe Adamian and Brad Cole at DesignCon '09. But I think Agilent is being a bit more rigorous :) Jim Nadolny Samtec -----Original Message----- From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Daniel, Erik Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 7:09 AM To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: An opportunity to participate in a 2x thru fixture de-embed Eric- As you might already be aware, a number of years ago, we developed a de-embedding method that sounds very similar to what you described. It was presented at ARFTG in 2003 -- you can pull the paper ("Network Analyzer Measurement De-embedding Utilizing a Distributed Transmission Matrix Bisection of a Single THRU Structure") from IEEE XPLORE. We have used this method for both 2 port and 4 port de-embedding (though the paper only discusses 2 port). It has its limitations, but we've used it successfully in a wide range of scenarios (on wafer, PCBs, etc.) It will be interesting to see how your method compares. - Erik Erik Daniel, Ph.D. SPPDG Deputy Director Consultant, Department of Physiology and Biomedical Engineering Secretary: 507-284-4056 Fax: 507-284-9171 E-mail: Daniel.Erik@xxxxxxxx Web: www.mayo.edu/sppdg _______________________________ Mayo Clinic 200 First Street SW Rochester, MN 55905 www.mayoclinic.org > Msg: #1 in digest > From: "Eric Bogatin" <eric@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Subject: [SI-LIST] An opportunity to participate in a 2x thru fixture de-embed > Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 08:34:33 -0600 > > Hi folks- > > > I have a great opportunity for a few lucky companies. > > > > I am working on a DesignCon forum with Agilent about a new calibration > technique for measured S-parameter behavioral models of interconnects- > both single ended and differential, and I am looking for examples to show > off. > If you have an interconnect element you have already built and would like it > included in my presentation, please contact me off line. If you have the right > sort of sample, I will arrange for the measurements. > > > > This technique applies if you have a symmetric, 2x thru reference structure > along with the DUT. This reference structure is the fixture from the SMA to > the end of the DUT connected to its mirror image. Using the 2 or 4 port > measurements of the symmetric 2x thru structure and the measurement of > the DUT embedded in the middle of this fixture, we can de-embed the > fixture part and "automagically" extract just the DUT S-parameter behavioral > model. > > > > If you have an interconnect structure, along with the symmetric 2x thru > reference structure, and would like some visibility at DesignCon, as well as > the measurements done for you, please contact me off line to discuss this > opportunity. Due to time and resource limitations, I will select the first 3 > suitable examples that are submitted. > > > > I am looking particularly for examples of: Board to board connectors, coax to > board connectors, uniform cables, uniform circuit board traces (to get Dk, Df > values), circuit board elements like vias, DC blocking caps or flex structures. > > > > Just so you know, if the fixturing to the DUT is asymmetric- like an SMA > connector to a board, as long as I have symmetric 2x thru structures created > for each side separately, I can still de-embed the DUT from an asymmetric > thru fixture measurement. > > > > If you want to participate in this project, contact me off line to discuss the > details. > > > > Thanks and I look forward to hearing from you. > > > > Of course, this education forum will be open to the public at DesignCon and > the presentation will be recorded and made available to anyone interested in > this technique. Stay tuned. > > > > --eric > > > > ******************************************************* > Dr. Eric Bogatin, Signal Integrity Evangelist Bogatin Enterprises Setting the > Standard for Signal Integrity Training No Myths Allowed Webinar Series Public > Classes <http://www.bethesignal.com/> www.BeTheSignal.com > Blog: <http://www.bethesignal.com/blog> www.beTheSignal.com/blog > 26235 W 110th Terr > Olathe, KS 66061 > e: <mailto:eric@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> eric@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > v: 913-393-1305 cell: 913-424-4333 f: 913-393-0929 > skype: eric.bogatin > *********************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.net List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.net List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu